Accucraft Shay

[Bad Droid]

So.....I think my plans have changed a bit as far as my return to live steam, had a couple questions for y'all.
My original plan was to replace my Ruby that I sold a few years back and build either a Billy or Lady Anne Kit, then Americanize that model.
I still want to replace the Ruby, modify from there but I'm having second thoughts about the Roundhouse build. I think I would like to go with an Accucraft 13T Shay in "kit" form for the mining district of my railroad that only exists in my head at the moment. I'd really like their older Open Cab Shay, but they don't produce that any longer and I don't really want a used one.
So my questions..
Do any of you have experience with any of the Accucraft Shays? If so, can it handle a 1% grade? Id really like to make a crossover loop on my future mining district, I have lots of space and it would be a large portion of the railroad. The Shay will/would be remote controlled as well.
My original plan of a RH Kit was to save a little cash, but after the build, mods to Americanize and materials, I think I'm within a couple bucks of the Shay kit, and I'm a huge Shay fan....
Thanks in advance, hopefully I'm in the correct section of the forum for all of this.

[GTB]

Do any of you have experience with any of the Accucraft Shays? If so, can it handle a 1% grade? Id really like to make a crossover loop on my future mining district, I have lots of space and it would be a large portion of the railroad. The Shay will/would be remote controlled as well.

I have no experience of the new Accucraft 13T Shay. Haven't even seen one, as they've only recently been delivered to Oz.......

I do have a 28T 3 cylinder example of the last batch. My experience getting it to actually run properly is in this post.

https://gardenrails.org/viewtopic.php?t=11047

I've run it with a load of six timber pairs on 1:30 grades (3% ?) with no issues, but only AFTER the rebuild. It wouldn't have pulled the skin off a rice pudding as it came out of the box.

There's no point in fitting r/c to a Shay, even if you could find the space. They only run at two speeds, as slow as a wet week, or stationary. I doubt I could fit r/c in the 28T model and there'd be even less space in the 13T model.

The Shays don't run anything like a Ruby, as the gearing ratio is very low and so they don't speed up downhill, or slow on an upgrade if it comes to that. On it's home track mine now plods along at a constant pace up hill and down dale with a load of eleven timber pairs at a scale speed of about 2.5 mph.

Regards,
Graeme

[LNR]

I second everything Graeme has said, my 3 cylinder Shay had to have work done under warranty out of the box. Atrocious Quality control, if it exists. Grades are not a problem, however I don't believe they are an engine to run too often like a Rod driven loco. the drive line is far more susceptible to dirt and grit, and far more delicate in its construction.

Shay and Logs 4.JPG (231.71 KiB) Viewed 79423 times

I like Shays, just don't like the way Accucraft make them. My opinion only.
Grant.

[Keith S]

Well, I can’t speak to the other guys’ opinions because I don’t have one.

But there is no doubt it can handle a 1% grade.

[Scrat]

I also have an Accucraft two truck Shay (MichCal).
Good steamer, good runner, pulls everything you put behind her.

Only drawback (in my view) is the huge hand pump.
You can fill the boiler with just a few strokes but it is easy to tilt the loco in the process, lifting the front bogie off the track.
Easy to copy with if used to it

[Bad Droid]

Thanks everyone, very helpful!
On the two cylinder, can you do what I did w the Ruby and give it good steam at the throttle and use the reverser valve to regulate speed (and direction of course)?
That's how I ran the ruby with RC, a single servo on the valve instead of the throttle.
A bit bummed but also understand that there's no room for rc in the little shay but I can get around that, not the end of the world.

[GTB]

On the two cylinder, can you do what I did w the Ruby and give it good steam at the throttle and use the reverser valve to regulate speed (and direction of course)?

I see no reason why not. I gather the valve gear on the 13T Shay (and the other Shay models) is much the same as the Ruby design, with piston valves on the cylinders and a third piston valve doing the reversing. Driving with a single servo on the reverser is a common arrangement on other Accucraft models with that valve gear.

Graeme.

[Bad Droid]

I see no reason why not. I gather the valve gear on the 13T Shay (and the other Shay models) is much the same as the Ruby design, with piston valves on the cylinders and a third piston valve doing the reversing. Driving with a single servo on the reverser is a common arrangement on other Accucraft models with that valve gear.

Graeme.

Thanks Graeme. Right after I had asked that, I stumbled on this, he's doing exactly what I was wondering about:

[David P]

A few anecdotal comments:

A colleague has recently assembled one of these little Shays from the kit and at present cannot get it to run above 25psi despite a target boiler pressure of 40 psi and, due to the long distance between the cylinders and the smoke-box, the latter ends up with quite a lot of condensation there.

Despite the brochure stating it has super-heating he assures me that it does not and the steam delivered to the cylinders is quite wet - exacerbated no doubt by the low boiler pressure.

And for those of us who are pedantic about scale it is not Fn3 (1:20.3) but rather 16mm to the foot (the brochure states both scales) with an oversize cab. When put beside a Bachmann 55 ton 3-truck Shay (Fn3) it is higher and almost half the length of the 3-trucker.

Were both to the same scale they should look like this image when side by side:

13 Ton Accucraft-70 Ton 3-Truck Shays.jpg (1.27 MiB) Viewed 79149 times

It's a lovely little engine which no doubt will be even better with some finessing and is close to scale of a 2' gauge loco when on 32mm track.

Neither Dulong or Mapleton on the Nambour Tramway were T-Boiler Shays (despite the reference in the brochure to these engines) but the use of such a boiler on such a small live steam locomotive is understandable.

Shay-6-Dulong-engine-2091-ready-to-leave-the-Lima-Locomotive-Works-in-the-USA-1908.jpg (121.95 KiB) Viewed 79149 times

Above image is Dulong on a standard gauge flatcar, leaving the Lima factory on its way to Australia, 1908.


Both engines were combined into a single unit by the Moreton Central Sugar Mill in 1948 which became known as "Shay" - now statically displayed at the Nambour Museum.

[Bad Droid]

A few anecdotal comments:

A colleague has recently assembled one of these little Shays from the kit and at present cannot get it to run above 25psi despite a target boiler pressure of 40 psi and, due to the long distance between the cylinders and the smoke-box, the latter ends up with quite a lot of condensation there.
.......

Well, I think you talked me out of this one. Its like one of those "Tough Love" sessions, that's a lot of info that I didn't want to hear but I definitely needed to hear it. I appreciate your insight, as well as all the others here. I'm going to find something else I think, not because I'm a rivet counter any longer, but because of all the other things mentioned here. Im in this to have fun.
Sticking with step one and replacing my Ruby, modify and research the best option(s) for a Shay. The 13T Accucraft was within the thickness of my wallet, bummed but not as bummed if I learned all this afterwards.

[Tropic Blunder]

Definitely an interesting one David I was a bit sceptical with how they were going to use the existing 2 cylinder assembly on such a small shay but all the pictures I've seen are pretty much confirming that its bigger then it should be. The difference between 1:22 and 1:24 is fairly common on most rollingstock in G scale and its nowhere near as noticeable as the 13t shay is compared to other rollingstock

Glad I have one of the Aster ones the 13 tonner would look huge next to my 1:24 stock

[Bad Droid]

.....all the pictures I've seen are pretty much confirming that its bigger then it should be. The difference between 1:22 and 1:24 is fairly common on most rollingstock in G scale and its nowhere near as noticeable as the 13t shay is compared to other rollingstock

Glad I have one of the Aster ones!

Thanks for the Intel. Since this thread began I have been scouring the innerwebz for pictures of the 13t with other locos/rolling stock, yeah I can't do it. Again, I'm not a rivet counter but things still need to look "right".
You mentioned your Aster locos, right now I'm looking not at a shay but a pre-buy on the 2-6-0 Mogul in kit form. Just pondering what it would take to change it from the wood burner to a make believe coal burner and have IT look right. I know from research that they eventually did upgrade many of these Baldwins to coal and even oil later in life. I just don't know about their appearances as they evolved.
Anyway, thanks again.

[Mitch stack]

Hey there, ive got an Accucraft Shay and i can highly recommend the 13 ton one that is currently avaliable. the only things youll need to note is the gas tank is in the tender/Bunker Area and requires a small amount of Hot Water to Warm the Gas Up so it makes steam, the other thing i have noticed is if you fill the boiler all the way on the Shay because of the T boiler the water can prime because the steam space is at the top of the boiler, i can get a 30 minute run out of my shay on a tank of gas and a couple of water top ups.

[Bad Droid]

Hey there, ive got an Accucraft Shay and i can highly recommend the 13 ton one that is currently avaliable. the only things youll need to note is the gas tank is in the tender/Bunker Area and requires a small amount of Hot Water to Warm the Gas Up so it makes steam, the other thing i have noticed is if you fill the boiler all the way on the Shay because of the T boiler the water can prime because the steam space is at the top of the boiler, i can get a 30 minute run out of my shay on a tank of gas and a couple of water top ups.

I've heard that they run really well, talked to a few YouTubers about it and they too explained the water bath. How does it look compared to other 1:20.32 scale items? Id really like to grab one, they look nice but after hearing about its oversized look I'm a bit timid.
'30 minute run", that sounds like fun!

[Mitch stack]

if you have a look at my Cockatoo Creek Tramway Thread you will see a picture of the shay next to a 1:20.3 shay, in real life the mapleton shay is a big loco so that is why it is a bit larger for 1:19th then the smaller shays Accucraft have produced.

[Bad Droid]

if you have a look at my Cockatoo Creek Tramway Thread you will see a picture of the shay...

.
Ahhh, I've been all over that thread, can't believe I missed that, LOL.
Nice looking Tramway BTW.

[Mitch stack]

if you have a look at my Cockatoo Creek Tramway Thread you will see a picture of the shay...

.
Ahhh, I've been all over that thread, can't believe I missed that, LOL.
Nice looking Tramway BTW.

Thanks Very Much, Looking forward to seeing if you will get a shay!

[David P]

.....all the pictures I've seen are pretty much confirming that its bigger then it should be. The difference between 1:22 and 1:24 is fairly common on most rollingstock in G scale and its nowhere near as noticeable as the 13t shay is compared to other rollingstock

Glad I have one of the Aster ones!

Thanks for the Intel. Since this thread began I have been scouring the innerwebz for pictures of the 13t with other locos/rolling stock, yeah I can't do it. Again, I'm not a rivet counter but things still need to look "right".
You mentioned your Aster locos, right now I'm looking not at a shay but a pre-buy on the 2-6-0 Mogul in kit form. Just pondering what it would take to change it from the wood burner to a make believe coal burner and have IT look right. I know from research that they eventually did upgrade many of these Baldwins to coal and even oil later in life. I just don't know about their appearances as they evolved.
Anyway, thanks again.

Colleague of mine sent me this image - sort of puts the 13 Ton Shay's size in perspective:

1000012234.jpg (1.35 MiB) Viewed 78249 times