Garden Railway Forum

very soon i will be making my own signals.

can anyone tell me the rough size of a signal arm in 16mm scale please?

cheers james

Roberts wood light railwa:112731 wrote:very soon i will be making my own signals.

can anyone tell me the rough size of a signal arm in 16mm scale please?

cheers james

Hi James
I used the Cambrian signal parts as my guide, so nothing very scientific. I'm sure there will be others with more knowledge of IoM prototypes for example who will give you dimensions which are more prototypically accurate:

My arms were 12mm x 65mm (with a 5mm based triangle taken from one end)


I then soldered on the spectacle frames, which were roughly 12mm x 25mm (wound round two dowels)


I think the arms look slightly overscale - but then it could be argued that on narrow gauge railways there wasn't really a 'standard' size


Best of luck with making your own signals. I've shared my experiences here, if that's any help:
http://riksrailway.blogspot.co.uk/2014/ ... gnals.html

Rik

hanks for the help

cheers james

James good luck making sginals, i need two for mine and keep putting off. However i just read riks post and they look great. Might give it a go.

Even in Standard gauge there were variations. Signalling contractors all had their own variations too. Rik's advice is very sound. At the end of the day everyone's railway is their own. Each of us can work to our own standards (provided we aren't modelling a prototype) and thus no one can tell us something is wrong (or right!).

I think the only folks I know of who pooped a brick about signals being absolutely a standard size were the Germans and 'Austro-Zone' where the geometry of the typical Hauptsignal with its two co-acting arms was an issue.  I seem to recall that 1.25m by 0.25m was the standard there, but I am sure there were some exceptions.

In the UK things were a little more flexible, but somewhere around four foot long by a foot wide was the norm for running signals, except where there were clearance issues.  The GSR/CIE LQ tubular post signals were 3'10.5" from pivot to the end of the arm, and just about 12" across the end, but tapered towards the cast iron spectacle plate, which balanced the arm.  Also please remember, installations put in before about 1925 are usually LQ.

IMR signals are a right mixed bag due to incessant boggling down the years.  There were quite a few shortened arms at one point due to fishtail ends being cut off, or the iron strap around the end causing the arm to go rotten, so the last 4" got the chop and the band refitted.

UK light railways were usually minimally signalled using standard equipment from contractors, but not always.  There were also some interesting variations of standard practice.  FWIW, the poles are pretty much represented by Campbelltown and Machrihanish was fairly fully signalled, with homes and starters at stations, but no distants, and not much beside a 'toot and slow down' board at level crossing; whilst the other pole is the WHR which was largely unsignalled.  The ex-GNR/LNER equipment at the old Lincolnshire Coast Light Railway was kind of fun, especially as it was usually OOU.

I am always surprised by how large a standard size signal arm looks in 16mm. The CIE signals would be 62mm from end to pivot in SM32/45!

Cheers,
Peter in AZ
(who finally took the bait)

I have considered making signals from the kits provided by Pendle Valley. My lack of progress is this area is because i have too many other things to do.
Because I share my garden with a dyspraxic dog my signals will need to be easily removeable and any control will need to be on the post itself. With this in mind I was considering making the balance weights larger than scale and using these as operating levers with no connection to ground level rodding.

My dog's have four left feet, so the 'signalling' here is signage based, which was the tendency in Norway on minor lines anyway.  The one 'worked' signal was the entrance signal, which was where they would hang a flag or lamp giving the status of the loop, so no signal wires here either.

Cheers,
Peter in AZ

Guess I'm a bit late coming to this topic. For the signals on the LNR, I came across some old office furniture that had a brass section on the drawer fronts shown in the pic. made to slide name plates into.

It scaled out to Victorian Railways size, and allows you to build the pivot point on a brass plate and slide it to the appropriate point before fixing. Very important especially with somersault type arms. Also allowed thin lead to slide in for balance, and adds some rigidity to the arm. Don't know if it exists in England, but I'm guarding my piece.
Grant

Grant
Love the look of that somersault mechanism and the clever reuse of 'found' materials. Brilliant!

Rik

Bit late to this party too, but I've been meaning to reply for ages..

ge_rik:112736 wrote: I think the arms look slightly overscale - but then it could be argued that on narrow gauge railways there wasn't really a 'standard' size

Well; yes there was - though maybe not between railways, but on the same railway the signals would have been standard.

Most railways used a signalling contractor - in the majority of cases it was McKenzie and Holland (in fact, I've just been looking at the 1870s invoices to the Festiniog from McK&H) - McK&H supplied bits to the NWNG, Corris and Festiniog. The RSCo from Fazakerley supplied complete 'packages' to the Snowdon Mountain - standard groundframes and signals and  the staff instruments to boot.  

The UK mainland NG railways that predated the signalling contractors, or were self-suffcient - Penrhyn and Padarn produced signalling to their own pattern, but I think it was only the Penrhyn that really produced signals out of any old bits of wood: fortunately most of the PQR signals are photographed/survive/are on display at the NGRM.

In essence you would have a 'standard' signal where block information was being given: the Corris signals at Mach West, Maespoeth and Corris (before the extension) were all standard off-the-shelf bits from McK&H and match NWNG signals or the signals at Blaenau No 2 - they were all form the same period. What does differ is by and large the heights of the signal arms - in the case of the block posts they're all standard heights - yet at the intermediate non-block locations there's a bit of laxity.....  

The Victorian Railways certainly used McKenzie Holland gear, not sure if it was exclusive, but I tend to think so. The narrow gauge used the same size signals as our broad gauge. The V.R. actually trialled three position upper quadrant signalling on the narrow gauge before adopting it on the broad gauge.
Grant

I have a near complete set of VR S&T drawings and the majority is Australian-made McK&H equipment.