Pulling Power

[Gralyn]

I had a none modelling friend around today, he had expressed a wish to see OVLR in the flesh. As is usual on these visits he asked lots of questions about the hobby and running live steam in particular. One question he asked did have me stumped though.
"Can these locos pull a person??"  I seem to remember many years ago seeing in the O Gauge Guild Journal an article that had a 7mm live steam Garret on a raised track pulling 3 people (it could have been posed I suppose or even the April issue and I didn't get the joke).
What about now has there been any record of a 16mm ish loco pulling a person on 32 or 45 mm track?

[IrishPeter]

It is generally accepted that 2.5" gauge locomotives are the smallest that can pull their drivers.  LBSC designed a lot of simple 'half inch' scale locomotives which could be used both on the old Ga.3 model layouts, and to tow the driver on a raised model engineers track. That said, the smaller 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 tank locos might not be up to it.  As you know LGB at 1:22.5 is very close to the old "half inch" or 1:24 scale.  The difference is that LGB is metre gauge prototypes for the most part. 16mm is actually 1:19.05 scale so the potential is there for a man-puller.

Conversely I do not see why a large 16mm locomotive - eight coupled, Fairlie or Garratt - should not be able to pull a man on level track.  The problems have more to do with stability than anything else provided the loco is fairly hefty.

Peter in AZ

[Alan P]

You guys might want to take a look at one of Chris Bird's videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJi7MBVz ... 98oEgEkSeg

[steamie1]

has been done read it in 16mm mag. Sadly the details are in a file marked 'rusty lock' in the depths of my mind.

[Gralyn]

You guys might want to take a look at one of Chris Bird's videos  :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJi7MBVz ... 98oEgEkSeg

So It can be done. I wonder if a non geared loco would do it.

[Andrew]

has been done read it in 16mm mag. Sadly the details are in a file marked 'rusty lock' in the depths of my mind.

The latest SMT has an article about Peter Jones which shows a young Kes sitting in a carriage (not sure of the gauge) - apparently 32mm track was laid down the middle and the carriage pulled along by an Archangel "Brick". I owned one of those briefly but couldn't even get it to move itself - somehow we never really hit it off and I sold it on again , some locos are like that I think...

[Keith S]

Just the other day I was running my "Billy" (Roundhouse 0-4-0) on my workbench with three wagons. I was curious about traction so I put a heavy weight on the wagons.

I have one of those military ammunition-boxes for .303 Lee-Enfield bullets. It's still about half-full and weighs about 35 pounds. I put this on the wagons and the engine WAS able to pull it, but needed a little help to get moving. With much angry spitting and slipping, it managed to stagger down the tracks. The exhaust beat was pretty spectacular.

I would say that it seemed as though adhesion was the trouble in this case. My test track is a little oily, and I have heard that "Billys" will pull more if some weight is added to them.

I bet TWO Roundhouse engines might be able to pull a smaller man if his weight was distributed across many axles with good bearings.

The trouble is, with most of these locomotives having no proper bushings or bearings in their crank-pins and valve gear, if you did this sort of thing too often you would wear the locomotive out fairly quickly.

A friend of mine has a video of a Mercer traction-engine, which has a pot-boiler and is about the size of a 16mm loco, pulling his five-year-old daughter around on a wagon.

I bet a Roundhouse engine would pull a small boy. That would be kind of funny to see, especially if the lad was able to drive the engine.

[steamie1]

The trouble is, with most of these locomotives having no proper bushings or bearings in their crank-pins and valve gear, if you did this sort of thing too often you would wear the locomotive out fairly quickly.

I think I like the loco way to much to harm it with load tests. Call me a whimp but I work so hard to obtain one loco after years of saving that I can't load it. Consequently they have run light for a few years now. Also funds being low has led to a very limited stock and when it is built it is built to run free. I love some of the swift sixteen products but find them too heavy, with high surface area bearings. We skip along in the breeze on the D.L.R. Mind you my locos can run very slow with no stiffness which is all the running in I reckon..

On the subject Know one says how the load was achieved like you say did they push it first and the loco sustain the effort?

In flying, many aircraft will hold 5 kts more cruise if you slide down onto it. The shallow dive prior, building more speed and levelled out it will hold it, because the momentum is maintained. I had a VP1 that would do 60kts but if climbed up and shallow dived down, would hold 65kts. It felt like 5mph free! Jodels do it very well, but that's in the washout of the wing design..bla bla..bla.. (He's off again don't get him on his other favourite subject)

[GTB]

What about now has there been any record of a 16mm ish loco pulling a person on 32 or 45 mm track?

This photo taken between the wars has been published in various places and shows Rex Stedman driving the O scale LNER Garratt he built for G. P. Keen. The passengers are G. P. Keen and his mate Capt. W. P. F. Kelly I think. The loco is electric I'm sure, but it seems to be controlled from the driving truck.


Arthur Sherwood of later 1:240 live steam fame demonstrated a live steam O scale loco pulling passengers years before he started pushing the lower limits of miniature steam locos. and from memory there was a report published in Model Engineer at the time.

Meccano staged a publicity stunt at their '61 trade show to drum up sales of their then new 00 scale Co-Co diesel models. It was reported in the model railway magazines at the time and this pic. shows three of the locos. apparently hauling a young lady weighing 8 stone.


The Dublo locos weighed less than one and a half pounds each and had only four of the twelve wheels driven, so the drawbar pull of three of them would be less than half that of a Roundhouse basic series steamer.  The real trick would be in ensuring that the trolley and the track it runs on is as friction free as possible. Maybe the track was like Mallard's, downhill.........

Regards,
Graeme

[Gralyn]

I Knew I had seen that picture of the O Gauge Garret somewhere.