Did i buy the wrong coal?

[benchmark]

I bought 2 bags something from DJB engineering at the Peterborough show and i presume its Anthracite. I tried lighting it this evening but the damn thing just wont keep a flame or even glow continuously .

I have tried both soaked in paraffin and in meths but same results and i can just see the fuel burn off literally over 4-7 secs and the black 'coal' remains unlighted. Its like the flame does not get inside the substance of the coal.

I also tried holding a blow torch on it for over 5 mins, it gets red hot but just dies if i remove the gas flame away.

I have tried in a firebox with a blower fan creating a draft but no luck so i reasoned that the firebox could be stifling the flame so i tried on an open ceramic plate....same results.

What am i doing wrong or did i buy the wrong stuff?

[Busted Bricks]

You need a good draft of air to get coal ignited. Hence the use of electric blowers (well, suckers actually) to get the fire going in model locos.

Pieces of wood soaked in paraffin are often used to start the fire. Once that is burning merrily you can start to add coal.

[benchmark]

I have a sucker fan from maxitrack. It gives a good draft so that it sucks a flame into the firebox if i hold a match near the door

[Stewart Gethin]

What i tend to do with my 5" Gemma is soak some bbq charcoal in paraffin and then get a fire going with that, once the paraffin has burnt off i add some anthracite, leaving the electric blower on until 20 or so psi then i open the steam blower a little bit.

Make sure that the lumps you are using aren't too big.

What loco is it you've got??

hope the above helps.
Stew

[benchmark]

i will try with the BBQ charcoal as starter.

I have a 7/8ths coal fired loco and a 1½ inch scale Marshal traction engine , i tried to fire up both but am clearly doing something wrong.

[benchmark]

Another thing i forgot to mention is that I find that it crackled and popped when burned. I am almost sure its my coal that is not of good quality.

[DLRdan]

If you've never done coal firing before I suggest practicing on the traction engine as the firebox will be larger and more forgiving. As others have said you need a starting fuel, coal doesn't burn unless its hot. I use charcoal soaked in parafin in about the same size as the coal. Fill the firebox up to the door with the charcoal, put the fan on the chimney but don't turn it on. Light the charcoal by lighting whats in the firebox or lighting a piece and put it in on the shovel.
Once the fire starts to spread to the rest of the charcoal turn the fan on, you may need to hold the fan just above the chimney if it draws too hard. When the fire has definatly taken hold shut the door. After a minute or so add another shovel full of charcoal. You want to keep adding charcoal untill you have a good depth of red coals. This is where things will differ between engines. On the roller I start adding small amounts of coal just as the pressure starts to rise but the loco with the smaller firebox and boiler has reached 30psi when its ready to change. Add two or three small pieces at a time, you may also need to add some pieces of charcoal to keep the fire going. If it is true antracite it will need a very hot fire to burn.
When the pressure gauge shows about 30 PSI turn on the engines own blower and remove the fan. From this point on you need to watch the water as it will begin to drop At this point there should be the beginings of a coal fire in the firebox so keep adding coal little and often, if you can waiting untill the previous shovel full had ignited before adding the next. If you are still unsure dont be affraid to add the odd bit of charcoal along with the coal. When you reach about 60 PSI you might want to start the engine. Open the draincocks if it has them and open the regulator a small amount, turning the engine by hand.
Once the engine is warm open the regulator a little more. Watch the water level, adding water when needed by using the crankshaft pump. After a bit of practice you should be able to get the pump to match the water usage by altering the by pass valve.
By this point you should be running on a full coal fire, keep adding small amounts to keep a decent depth of fire. You may need to keep the blower open a small amount but most traction engines can keep the fire on just the engine exhaust without racing round. You may need to occasionaly poke the fire to stop ash building up. When you are on a full coal fire and the engine is running keep adding coal and water for as long as you want to run.

If this is a bit confusing I can make a video of starting my roller if it would help.

[benchmark]

Thanks for the advice guys, i gave it another go and heres the status of things, i just spent the last hour trying to light the damn thing and i am almost convinced that they sold me crap, ....well 2 bags of crap!

I was out today and bought some real tree charcoal ,not the briquettes but real wood charcoal lumps to use as starter . The real tree charcoal burns fine, but lasts very short time, as soon as the pressure is up to 20 PSI the charcoal starts to loose its heat , i tried systematically adding the coal (Anthracite) in bits as you guys recommended but it just wont light at all.

I thing i have to source another source of real coal, i cant understand the DJB engineering will sell crap at a national railway show so maybe its me doing something wrong.

[GardenSteamer]

Make sure the charcoal isn't too large - each piece should be about the size of your fingernail. The stuff they sell for BBQ's is far too large for coal firing. The best source of small size charcoal that i have found is TME Engineering

The charcoal should be completely saturated with paraffin and an electric blower (that acts as a sucker ) to induce a drought through the firebox is an essential.

After the charcoal has been alight for about a minute start introducing the anthracite a few shovel fulls at a time.

[Sir haydn]

Another problem could be the grate. Is that blocking? Is the ashpan too close to the bottom of the grate and filling with ash?
A photo of the loco would be helpful with detail of the fire box and grate.

[benchmark]

Make sure the charcoal isn't too large - each piece should be about the size of your fingernail.

yes i broke them into small bits

The charcoal should be completely saturated with paraffin and an electric blower (that acts as a sucker ) to induce a drought through the firebox is an essential.

Yes, soaked in parrafin, also tried soaking in meths. , blower is one i bought from Maxitrack and it works well.

After the charcoal has been alight for about a minute start introducing the anthracite a few shovel fulls at a time.

Exactly what i did.

[benchmark]

Another problem could be the grate. Is that blocking? Is the ashpan too close to the bottom of the grate and filling with ash?
A photo of the loco would be helpful with detail of the fire box and grate.

I can take a picture of the grate and firebox tomorrow when there is better lighting.
it is just funny that it wont light in the loco, in the 1½ inch traction engine or even on an open testing heath.

PS: i have seen the loco run on coal on youtube so i know its possible to get a coal fire to light inside.

[TonyW]

What did DJB say about this when you contacted them?

[benchmark]

What did DJB say about this when you contacted them?

Correction: it was ELR engineering i bought it from not DJB

Nevertheless, I did not even bother contacting them., the 2 bags i bought cost just 4 pounds .
I am just going to get some real Welsh coal from Maxitrack instead . I have heard good things about it.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20-KG-Welsh-S ... 4036660370

[Dr. Bond of the DVLR]

The welsh coal will behave in a completely different way to the anthracite - I've found its easier to start with but you have to keep an eye on it as it burns away to nothing very quickly

[benchmark]

The welsh coal will behave in a completely different way to the anthracite - I've found its easier to start with but you have to keep an eye on it as it burns away to nothing very quickly

That sound promising, i may toss in a few grains of the poor Anthracite to see if that will light them

[GardenRail]

I bought 2 bags something from DJB engineering at the Peterborough show and i presume its Anthracite. I tried lighting it this evening but the damn thing just wont keep a flame or even glow continuously .

I have tried both soaked  in paraffin  and in meths but same results and i can just see the fuel burn off literally over 4-7 secs and the black 'coal' remains unlighted. Its like the flame does not get inside the substance of the coal.


What am i doing wrong or did i buy the wrong stuff?

I was doing a demo on coal firing at Peterborough – pity you missed it. First of all you cannot start a fire with coal – I got a complete tyro to fire the loco using anthracite grains as per DJB. You need to build a fire up to 20 psi using paraffin soaked charcoal, put the steam blower on and then start adding coal. Don't be in too much of a hurry, you will very quickly get your loco up to pressure, but the fire will be only charcoal and will die very quickly if you try to run. Build your fire slowly, keeping a balance between half/ three quarters of a glass and stopping the thing from blowing off. You need around 20min of doing this before you actually move so that you can build a good, deep and hot fire. Is there no one local who has experience of coal-firing and indeed do you have instructions with your loco? You really need a bit of help if not. Give me a call on 01752 845938 and we can have a chat about it.

[benchmark]

Thanks Tag, i intended to attend but somehow the time went so fast and it was over in between my talking to people and trying to see everything .

I tried again this morning with better results , i was able to get 2 laps on my track but i still need learn this coal firing stuff. Apart from the fact that i may have bought anthracite that was not the best quality out there, i probably also need to take things slow as you say. I will give it a go or 2 more before i bug you with a phone call. Meanwhile my box of premium welsh coal is on its was from the UK.

By the way, i was at your stand 3 times to say hello but you were at large each time, i did leave a message with the other guy who was there.

[GardenRail]

Thanks Tag, i intended to attend but somehow the time went so fast and it was over in between my talking to people and trying to see everything .

I tried again this morning with better results , i was able to get 2 laps on my track but i still need learn this coal firing stuff. Apart from the fact that i may have bought anthracite that was not the best quality out there, i probably also need to take things slow as you say. I will give it a go or 2 more before i bug you with a phone call. Meanwhile my box of premium welsh coal is on its was from the UK.

By the way, i was at your stand 3 times to say hello but you were at large each time, i did leave a message with the other guy who was there.

I prefer to start my fire with anthracite and then to move onto Welsh steam coal. Anyway give me a call just for chat about it – any time except Wed and Friday evening I should be around. alternatively try and find me on Skype – skype name tagorton

[Narrow Minded]

This topic is crying out for a step-by-step "How To" style video - there's plenty of coal firing vid's on Youtube, but none that approach it from an instructional point of view for the novice.

(Yes, that IS a hint for anyone with a camera and coal fired loco - your chance to star! )