Garden Railway Forum

That looks great there Greg.

This may give you some ideas on how to do mountains in a corner.

https://ringbalin.blogspot.com/p/about-railway.html

I am starting to do a background similar to the one on here down my back fence to hide it.
I will use poly styrene foam and acrylic concrete render to cover it the same as I did here.

GAP wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 9:05 pm That looks great there Greg.

This may give you some ideas on how to do mountains in a corner.

https://ringbalin.blogspot.com/p/about-railway.html

I am starting to do a background similar to the one on here down my back fence to hide it.
I will use poly styrene foam and acrylic concrete render to cover it the same as I did here.

Thanks Graeme. Using foam rubber is a new idea to me. I have been trawling the web for scenery making ideas. Not a lot has changed in 30 years since I built my N gauge scenery from chicken wire and plaster soaked paper. Some new use of expanding foam but that seems expensive to me.
I've started collecting big cardboard boxes and polystyrene foam. I'll need to make 7 tunnel portals too!

gregh wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:43 am

GAP wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 9:05 pm That looks great there Greg.

This may give you some ideas on how to do mountains in a corner.

https://ringbalin.blogspot.com/p/about-railway.html

I am starting to do a background similar to the one on here down my back fence to hide it.
I will use poly styrene foam and acrylic concrete render to cover it the same as I did here.

Thanks Graeme. Using foam rubber is a new idea to me. I have been trawling the web for scenery making ideas. Not a lot has changed in 30 years since I built my N gauge scenery from chicken wire and plaster soaked paper. Some new use of expanding foam but that seems expensive to me.
I've started collecting big cardboard boxes and polystyrene foam. I'll need to make 7 tunnel portals too!

Greg,

The acrylic render from Bunnings is only $14, it goes for miles
https://www.bunnings.com.au/dunlop-20kg ... r_p0760242

The play sand also from Bunnings is $7-8
https://www.bunnings.com.au/richgro-20k ... d_p3022506

I look the cheapest white acrylic paint I can get and tint it with those artist's paints from the $2 shops, that is what the backdrop is done with.
I'm starting one to hide the fence across the back of my G scale layout.

I also look for mistints, of a colour I can use, in the paint dept and can get tins for about 1/2 price.

Thanks for those hints and links Graeme. Will check them out.

gregh wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:23 am Thanks for those hints and links Graeme. Will check them out.

Another link to help you
https://ringbalin-light-railway.blogspo ... -make.html

Part 4
Lower station Area

I have decided that the upper level station will be called “Claymine” (because there is a clay pit there). And the lower station will be called “Pottsville” (because there is a pottery factory there !).

The Pottsville station area has virtually the same track layout as Claymine, with an engine shed added. Both have short passenger platforms, so a passenger service can be run, just to add interest to the 'clay train' workings.
link to video of first testing of operations... https://youtu.be/qGn7SvlEN2I
I have got to the point where trackwork is finished. So it can rain all it wants now while I finish the scenery etc. I have installed low ‘walls’ around the shelf edges to catch any derailments.

I had three mates around to test out finished the track with their small locos and it turned into a really enjoyable time, and they all want to repeat the fun. (And of course they had many suggestions on how to extend the line outside the shed – not likely, I still have 100m of the garden Sandstone and Termite track to maintain)

here’s the video link……….. https://youtu.be/GrXwD5A6MV0

I have enjoyed going back to indoor layout building with the 3-dimensional 'surveying' needed. I look forward to again building mountains and scenery and buildings without regard to making them all waterproof. After that I will make some shorter wheelbase wagons (2 to 3") as they will look better. (the existing 4" wheelbase wagons really need to be compensated or sprung to run reliably.)

Now how is the clay transported from the mine? Shovelled onto small piles on flat wagons? In open wagons? Or in maybe in bags?

That operating session looked a lot of fun! I really like the little red brake van...

Don't know about on your side of the planet, but here clay travelled in "hoods", four wheel open wagons with tarpaulins over to keep the clay moist. What clay traffic is left goes in covered hoppers these days.

Really looking forward to seeing the scenery go in...

Andrew

Huh! Typical, 4 blokes with nothing better to do than play trains!! Dunno what the world is coming to!

Absolutely superb. I realise that this is permanent but actually it would make a fantastic exhibition layout that would keepthe punters entertained for hours.

gregh wrote: ↑Sat Nov 19, 2022 9:07 am Now how is the clay transported from the mine? Shovelled onto small piles on flat wagons? In open wagons? Or in maybe in bags?

In Oz, my money would be on the clay being carried between pit and works in either V-skips, or US pattern wooden side tippers. Kilns need lots of fuel, so your railway will also need to carry in firewood and/or coal.

I doubt any Aust. pottery would have been big enough to need a railway to carry clay, unless it made bricks as well.

Both my grandfathers were brickmakers and one of the brick works also made pottery, but the brick works in that area didn't have tramways. The clay came from the clay pits some miles away by road, originally in horse drawn drays, in later years it went by road truck.

The Newbold Bros. industrial refractory factory down at Thirroul might be a good prototype for you to look at. They had quarries and clay pits scattered around the landscape, at least a couple of of which had tramways and they used coastal shipping at one time. I went through the works in the late '80s in BHP days and the internal tramway was long gone by then. The place was a working museum piece at that time, no idea if the new owners have modernised it by now.

Anyway, there have been a couple of articles with photos covering Newbold operations in 'Light Railways' over the years. The LRRSA have digitised the back issues and made them freely available online.

http://media.lrrsa.org.au/amri250/Light ... ys_250.pdf
http://media.lrrsa.org.au/amas205/Light ... ys_205.pdf

There have also been articles on other brick works in Light Railways. If you go to the LRRSA home page and put 'brick works' in the search field on the right, it will turn up a list of articles that will keep you occupied for a while. The first will be Whitemans in Perth, which had a loco powered tramway running between the claypit and the brick works.

Regards,
Graeme

The Pentewan Railway in Cornwall used to transport China clay in open wagons. They then offloaded them into ships on elevated trestles.

Rik

I'd forgotten about the Pentewan Railway! And that the "hoods" were for transporting clay over hundreds of miles, not along a short industrial branch line - you're right, I reckon skips, tubs or uncovered opens are much more likely...

At 3:25 ist looks as if the wagon corners are touching in the curve.

The test running looked like a heap of fun.
Tight curves and sharp incline are what make short narrow gauge lines so interesting.
4 blokes crammed into a 10x10 garden shed in summer may get a bit intense though.

GAP wrote: ↑Sat Nov 19, 2022 11:34 pm 4 blokes crammed into a 10x10 garden shed in summer may get a bit intense though.

I was only thinking today, when I had to keep the door closed, that 'this won't work for 4 people in summer!"

Scrat wrote: ↑Sat Nov 19, 2022 5:49 pm At 3:25 it looks as if the wagon corners are touching in the curve.

I use just chain and hook couplings, so I have to have very long chains! In one of the videos you will hear me commenting on Keith's train with Kadee's and how they actually worked when I didn't think they would. (It's because his wagons are shorter than mine.)

Thanks everyone for their ideas and suggestions for clay wagons.
GTB's references will keep me busy for a while.

One of the good things about running my own railway and not a prototype, is that I can decide what I will do from all those options.
The pic that Rik gave showed open waggons and I can't decide if they were bags or just pointed piles of clay.

As my mine is a tiny affair and I have no space to actually model a wagon loader/ unloader, that has to be just either on a back scene or in my imagination. I need a simple idea to be able to put a load into the wagon and take it out, by hand. Just so it is obvious where the train is going.

When I was planning the idea, I remembered the Driving Creek Railway in NZ where the potter built a 15" gauge railway up the mountainside to get clay. (later it became a tourist attraction)

This video at about 1:30, shows he just used bags for his clay. https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/barry ... otter-1970

So I have 3 options to ponder at present.
1. low sided open wagons with a lift out load of bags (how do I make them???)
2. flat wagon with lift off load of bags (as per Driving Creek)
3. low sided wagon with lift off tarpaulin 'hood'. This may be too fragile to lift off and move around.


GTB's idea that the pottery needs firewood is something I hadn't thought of and may be a another set of wagons with lift off loads too. And you are right in that my 'pottery' will also have a brickworks on the backscene. Maybe what I called the Goods shed siding will be a firewood siding. Could allow some very 'original' looking loading!

The railway in that video is fascinating. The trestle looks very impressive for such a niche railway

Rik
PS No sure I'd trust myself to swing a spade with bare feet!

ge_rik wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 10:17 am The railway in that video is fascinating. The trestle looks very impressive for such a niche railway

The Driving Creek Railway is a real tourist attraction now. We visited about 20 years ago and the railway then didn't go to the top of the hill as shown in this video.
https://drivingcreek.nz/activities/driv ... way-tours/

More ideas - his use of the railway within the pottery to move big pots. I have many (scale) big pots of Paulines. Maybe they could be moved by train too.

gregh wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:32 am So I have 3 options to ponder at present.
1. low sided open wagons with a lift out load of bags (how do I make them???)
2. flat wagon with lift off load of bags (as per Driving Creek)
3. low sided wagon with lift off tarpaulin 'hood'. This may be too fragile to lift off and move around.

No large operation in their right mind would transport clay in bags, although I can see how a one-man operation might do it for ease of handling.

Clay doesn't need to be kept dry under a tarp between pit and pottery, as the first operation in the factory is to crush it and add water. The mainline clay trains in Cornwall likely carried the purified china clay under 'hoods' to stop the UK climate washing it out of the wagon before it got to the customer. The drying beds had roofs over them for the same reason.

The front cover photo on this 'Light Railways' link shows a loaded train in the pit at Whitemans brick works in Perth.

http://media.lrrsa.org.au/cana204/Light ... ys_204.pdf

Clay as it comes out of the ground looks like any other load of dirt and it needs processing before it can be made into bricks, pots, pipes, etc.

Clay isn't a wagon load I've ever had to make, but I'd make it much the same way as a removable coal load. If you still have some of your wife's potters clay, let a block dry out and then crush it into suitable size pieces. Otherwise, tint some plaster with cement colour, cast a block and crush that when dry. Line the wagon with a piece of Glad Wrap, drop in a block of styrofoam and glue the load down with diluted PVA with a couple of drops of dishwashing detergent in it. The Glad Wrap acts as a release agent and stops the load being permanently glued into the wagon.

It occurs to me that a suitable load of finished goods would be earthenware drain pipes, some potteries made those in the days before plastic took over.

If the clay on my block is any indication, the clay pit might also need an explosives van during summer........

Regards,
Graeme

GTB wrote: ↑Sat Nov 19, 2022 11:31 am
In Oz, my money would be on the clay being carried between pit and works in either V-skips, or US pattern wooden side tippers. Kilns need lots of fuel, so your railway will also need to carry in firewood and/or coal.

Anyway, there have been a couple of articles with photos covering Newbold operations in 'Light Railways' over the years. The LRRSA have digitised the back issues and made them freely available online.

http://media.lrrsa.org.au/amri250/Light ... ys_250.pdf
http://media.lrrsa.org.au/amas205/Light ... ys_205.pdf

Regards,
Graeme

Thanks for the links. I remember the Thirroul works but didn't know there was a quarry there. I know the Bannister head tramway route well The pic of lumps of silica in low sided open wagons in the magazine, is probably a way to go for me. And similarly wood stacked vertically in the same wagons makes sense. I do have some V hoppers but the small wheels (flanges) won't run on the pottery line, so will have to re-wheel them someday.
Thanks for all your ideas. Very helpful