Tubs

listerboy · Post by **listerboy** » Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:10 pm

Hi

I'm considering making a rake of tubs similar to this ;
http://www.swiftsixteen.co.uk/index.php ... uct_id=316
I'm curious, how would the contents have been removed on the real railway?

andymctractor · Post by **andymctractor** » Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:29 pm

Perhaps they are propelled one at a time onto end tipping apparatus or are picked up side on similar to loco coal wagons on some larger standard gauge loco coal towers.
The truth is I don't know but they do look good especially when well weathered.

tuppenced · Post by **tuppenced** » Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:37 pm

On a Wagon Tippler* - a rotating machine that turns the whole bally tub upside down so that the contents are Gravity Assisted to their next destination.

On a sophisticated set-up, the couplers are on ball-joints so that the train doesn't need to uncouple - merely step forward one wagon at a time. But on simple tubs (such as British Railways with their side-buffers) it's still quite labour intensive, albeit less so than Shovelling.

David

If googling, be sure to put Wagon in or you'll just get a load of pigeon erotica.

GTB · Post by **GTB** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:40 am

listerboy:116164 wrote: I'm curious, how would the contents have been removed on the real railway?

Depended on the mining tramway in question. Some small ones did it the hard way by tipping them with a long pole and a couple of hefty miners. Most were more sophisticated and used tipplers, either side unloading, or end unloading. Side unloading was quicker.

Small underground mines would be unlikely to have bothered with special couplings, but big open cut operations like Aust. iron ore and coal mines use tipplers and rotating couplers on the cars to unload trains without any uncoupling or shunting. Takes a couple of hours to unload a 30,000t train from memory. There are videos on YouTube.

You'll find a scan of a Hudson's catalogue here on the cane-sig website

http://www.zelmeroz.com/album_rail/uk/m ... als-gs.pdf

Along with a lot of other items eminently worth modelling, on page 98 you'll find illustrations of both type of tippler supplied by Hudson, the sort that would have been used by small ng mining operations.

I've seen working ones in HO, so it should be possible to build one in garden scale.........

Regards,
Graeme

Annie · Post by **Annie** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:47 am

As an alternative to metal tippers I always thought these O&K ones looked very interesting.

stoker · Post by **stoker** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:27 pm

Annie:116177 wrote:

As an alternative to metal tippers I always thought these O&K ones looked very interesting.

R/H one looks to be staked to the ground....most likely to prevent the changing c of g toppling the truck!

Peter Butler · Post by **Peter Butler** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:08 pm

stoker:116179 wrote:
Annie:116177 wrote:

As an alternative to metal tippers I always thought these O&K ones looked very interesting.
R/H one looks to be staked to the ground....most likely to prevent the changing c of g toppling the truck!

My guess is that it is a stay which has been detached from the skip side and is just hanging there.

DLRdan · Post by **DLRdan** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:55 pm

I think the stay serves a dual purpose. The first is to stop the tipper from going over while on the move, the second is to stop the chassis falling during tipping by anchoring it to the rail not the ground.

There are some tubs shown in this video, it also shows how they are emptied.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unhXEQQk8G8

Annie · Post by **Annie** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:42 pm

Who is going to be the first to model a human trolley pole on a small electric loco

invicta280 · Post by **invicta280** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:52 pm

I love that video. Harry Potter meets Steampunk!
'motivus electra!'

listerboy · Post by **listerboy** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:02 pm

I'm considering using Binnie wheels and axleguards. Do they require a bearing?

andymctractor · Post by **andymctractor** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:03 pm

tuppenced:116167 wrote:On a Wagon Tippler* - a rotating machine that turns the whole bally tub upside down so that the contents are Gravity Assisted to their next destination.

Found this.

https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl= ... MwhKKBswGw

MDLR · Post by **MDLR** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:45 pm

listerboy:116200 wrote:I'm considering using Binnie wheels and axleguards. Do they require a bearing?

In a word - no.

listerboy · Post by **listerboy** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:47 pm

MDLR:116202 wrote:
listerboy:116200 wrote:I'm considering using Binnie wheels and axleguards. Do they require a bearing?
In a word - no.

I assume the plastic acts as a bearing? Is lubrication required? Sorry to ask a lot of questions, but I'm used to brass and metal!

MDLR · Post by **MDLR** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:51 pm

The plastic acts as a bearing, and minimal lubrication is required. If I were going in the opposite direction (ie plastic to metal) I might well be asking "silly" questions!

listerboy · Post by **listerboy** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:52 pm

MDLR:116209 wrote:The plastic acts as a bearing, and minimal lubrication is required. If I were going in the opposite direction (ie plastic to metal) I might well be asking "silly" questions!

Thanks Brian

tuppenced · Post by **tuppenced** » Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:17 am

listerboy:116208 wrote: I'm used to brass and metal!

Lister, Brass is a pretty poor bearing material. People only get away with it for models because the loads are small and the duty cycle consists mostly of standing on a shelf. Which are conditions that plastic bearings are quite happy with.

Unless the loads are sufficient to squish the plastic, or the temperature high enough to soften it, there are many plastics that outperform brass, notably (in no particular order) PTFE, Delrin etc, Tufnol/Paxolin, and the Nylon used by the Binnie dynasty.

Plastic cable clips make excellent inside bearings. For example Binnie 3mm axles clip in and out of a 3.5mm clip without taking the wheels off. (Fix the clip n way round not u way.) They are available in brown and black as well as white e.g. from Maplins.

If there's a good reason for a metal bearing, then Phosphor Bronze rod is the way to go for home made ones, or 'Oilite' self-lubricated sintered bronze which can be had Plain or Flanged.

David

listerboy · Post by **listerboy** » Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:35 pm

Thanks Tuppenced! The clips, I assume, go open side to the chassis?

tuppenced · Post by **tuppenced** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 12:07 am

If you prefer to install the clip Open side upwards like a letter u, it will rub on the frame unless you add a bit of bearing plastic between the clip and the frame. Also, the wheelsets will be trapped.

So I'm suggesting Open side downwards, like a letter n, which means you can clip the wheelset in and out without undoing screws. This works because the profile has two 'nibs' that retain the axle.

The picture is of the underside of an underframe:

and you can see one of the nibs if you peer hard enough.

Either way up, the axle will have a small vertical play which, on an inside-framed wheelset, gives a handy bit of Compensation.

For spoked wheels, where the outline is vaguely visible, one can get a slightly more Scale appearance - or at least, a more plausibly symmetrical appearance - by slicing two clips at the top of the arches, and fixing half of each face to face.

David

Annie · Post by **Annie** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:16 am

Clever

I must say that I've looked at that type of cable clip and wondered how they would work as an inside axlebox.

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