Light Railway Signalling - UK

[hussra]

Which was your favourite version of the sighting board - the present plain white of the black and white quarters that preceeded it?

I'm quite happy with the plain white - but the question really is whether it will be sufficiently conspic. to the loco crews. I confess that on my one footplate ride on the TR the crew tried very hard to point out the Quarry up sighting board (plain white) to me, but I completely failed to spot it.

[IrishPeter]

Now I know where it is I can see it, but I had to enlarge the pic to be sure that the white blob on the right hand side of the line was what I thought it was! Once I could see the unnatural shape in the landscapre I was OK. I think B/W would obscure that for me.

Ridley will need two sighting boards - one on the end of the building for down trains, and another on legs on the opposite side of the line for up trains.  Man being a lazy animal and the station building being on the 'down' side I will assume that the 'up' trains would always get the priority as that saves the operator having to walk round the front or rear of a standing train to wave the other one in...  :D

Cheers,
Peter in AZ

[IrishPeter]

The new boards got into a couple of shots here...

http://www.angelfire.com/ca7/ttac/CLRCon1.html

Peter in AZ

[hussra]

Very nice - that's a handly little canyon between the rocks that the line somehow appears through.

[IrishPeter]

There are two handy little canyons. The first one divides Ridley from Rickety Bridge, and the second divides Rickety Bridge from the long gentle grade down to Ryle Bank. The work a bit like the scenic breaks in small scale modelling. The least satisfactory part of the whole thing is the big loop around immediately between the lower terminus and Ridley as that part of the yard is way too open. Even the long climb up from Ryle Bank will eventually have a shed in the way making a break between Coverdale and Ryle Bank.

Peter in AZ

[IrishPeter]

After several months of using the experimental LNER boards to gauge braking distances I have discovered a couple of problems.

Firstly, the black and white distance boards are easy to sight, but the two legged version often gets broken by the dogs.  I shortened them so they a single post will suffice, so hopefully they will survive better. With the new location of the loop, they are actually a bit far out in that 'Millie' - which is the free-est running loco on the line - actually stops about 5' short. However, at least I can see them, which is an essential feature for the 'shut regulator' board.

Secondly, the red and white vertical 'section limit' boards get lost on the pinkish-tan background which is the predominant colour in our yard, and makes it very difficult to see the white/red boards at any distance even though I know where to look.  A controlled experiment with my usual 'victim' - the wife - at a range of 20 feet kind of proved the point.

"See the red and white board this side of the points?"
"No"
"It's two feet this side of the points!"
"Is it...?"
<pause>
"Oh yes, now I see it."  

Obvious that is not going to be a lot of good as a braking marker for any visitors I might get. If you stop too far back, the hypothetical 1/19th driver will be unable to see the calling on board/flag from the station. As a result, I think I am going to try a different design of board with more red on it to see if it shows up any better.  The Indian 2'6" gauge lines have what look remarkably like home and distance boards at level crossings.  The former looks like a red signal arm with two white bands; the former like a typical Indian distance arm.  I think they are the more effective for looking how one would expect.

FWIW I made an yellow/black Gate warning board and it shows up really well.  No mistaking that 'artificial shape in the landscape' for anything else.

And before any objects to boards being a late innovation in the UK I would like to invoke creative license and "Rule 2" (which read - "there are no rules")

Cheers,
Peter in AZ

[SapperAnt]

Ive recently unearth a battered copy of a Signalling Manual as produced for the Lazy Men's Society - I shall delve into it and see what light, if any, it sheds.

I've also got a Victorian signally manual from the Lankie. At one time the Lankie used semaphore flags for passing messages from engines. The Traffic Superintendent for for the Yorkshire section, a remarkable chap Admiral Cheesman Henry Binstead, who lived in my family's house, devised it. He also inveted the Binstead Signal. Whatever that was......

[hussra]

I think it's a case of considering what (a) is visible and (b) seems at least half plausible in your particular circumstances - which seems to be exactly what you're doing.

[IrishPeter]

As the Calthrop influence is already present on my line, it kind of makes sense to borrow from India where he did much of his work on Light Railways.  As the Indian Railways pursue their 'Unigauge' programme the old metre and 2'6" gauges are fast disappearing.  The Barsi Light Railway itself went in 2010/11.  I think that in the end, only Kalka - Simla; the Darj and a few other lines it would be totally impossible or prohibitively expensive to convert to ISG will be left.  At least they still have faith in their railways and are investing massively, but it is more or less the end of the Great Railway Bazaar as we knew it - in my case only on film/video.

Anyway, back to my effort in the garden.  I have made some temporary signs to the Indian pattern and I am going to give them a try, just need to find the 'reflective bling' to give the night time markings and we'll be away.  The distant board actually ended up looking rather Irish as it is a red fishtail board with a white V.  Anyhoo... the Indians have decent head lights, they do not seem to use reflectors, but the traditional UK lamp gives about as much light as a farmer's torch or a Toc-H lamp, so they are necessary.  The LNER used a WWW pattern in white reflectors for the location (distant) board, and three red dots up the middle for the section limit board.  I am going to keep the red dots for the home, but use a >> pattern to indicate distant, as that hints at the V on a distant arm.

I am also typing up an operating appendix for the line.  No doubt I will be cribbing heavily from the WHR's rebrics about unmanned passing loops, telephone rooms, and the guard playing stationmaster!

Cheers,
Peter in AZ

[IrishPeter]

I am coming round to the idea of using the absolute minimum of semaphore signals.  IIRC, under the 1896 Light Railways Act, home signals were required at the end of each single track section.  Distants not required unless the Home is not visible from a quarter mile.  Starters were not required at all as permission to enter the next section was conveyed by the staff or ticket.  However, most of the narrow gauge light railways that I can think of - Campbeltown and Machrihanish, VoR, and the Welshpool & Llanfair all had starters - when they had signals at all - even though they were technically a work of supererogation!

I might still get a wee bit adventurous when it comes to gated level crossings.  The open variety just need a whistle board, and it might prove expedient to mark the speed limit, though such signs were a bit rare before the 1930s.

Peter in AZ

[IrishPeter]

At the moment the railway is signalled with some crude "STOP - Until Called Forward" boards pending the installation of permanent signalling.  The inspector has passed the line for two train operation, but under conditions - including a 12" to the foot scale operator being stationed at Aussolas to make sure no-one cheats on the staff and ticket.

Irish "Tramways" were a bit hit-and-miss on the signalling, as the Inspectors seem to have been given a fair amount of dicretion under the 1883 Act.  Having been built in 1885-87, the Skebawn and Castleknox would have had some interlocking, but it might have been quite primitive - i.e. slot detectors, rather than tappet locking, but the chances are that the equipment would have come from the Railway Signalling Co., or MacKenzie and Holland, Dutton or perhaps one of the others if it was put out to bid. The RSCo were quite dominant in Ireland, and most of the equipment still used on CIE/IE in the 1990s, except on the old D&SER section was theirs.  Other quirks included starting signals and distants being negotiable, and an interesting selection of home made signals, were often times added after the initial installation was completed to meet local requirements, so there is some scope there to be inventive.  I am even wondering of there might be room for the 'Intermediate block porter' and his little shed with a telephone.

The rules that are floating in the back of my head are:

- Homes but no starters or distants
- Gated Level Crossings signalled with a fishtail distant, and a red target and lamp on the gate.
- Open Level Crossings appropriate signage.
- Point indicators, not ground signals, due to the date (1887) of original construction.
There will be a certain amount of home brewed equipment due to the inevitable Irish no-laws of poverty and excessive inventiveness.

Ferret Sweeney is back in his usual mood - glum.  They took a couple of four wheelers over the line today, and there were many ground faults.  Quite a lot of new ballast is going to have to go into the formation before it is ready for passengers.  In order to get the work done by Easter, Ferret may have to go see the priest and take the pledge, so that he stays out of Maggie's.  It might be more to the point if he took the rest of the crew with him - they're all better at throwing down Porter than tamping down ballast.

Cheers,
Peter in AZ

[ikcdab]

I read recently, not sure where now, that on the Redruth and Chacewater railway there was a rule that danger could be signaled by "violently waving a hat".
Now, that sounds like my kind of signalling.

[Soar Valley Light]

I do believe you are right! It conjours up a wonderful picture, doesn't it. I think that one will have to go into the Soar Valley Light Railways Rule Book when it's finally written.

[Dr. Bond of the DVLR]

Violent waving of anything on the Mid Suffolk Light Railway is danger

[Soar Valley Light]

It reminds me of the old chestnut Rule Book question.....

What colour lamp signal means Danger, Caution and Right away?

[ikcdab]

White is right
Red is wrong
Green means safely go along

[IrishPeter]

The Isle of Man Railway used to hold to the red for danger; green for caution, and white for clear convention. However, this applied only to most of the system. The Foxdale Branch (1885) and Douglas Station (rebuilt 1892/3,) being later, had the conventional red/green light aspects.

The present situation, which dates from 1922, is:

Red for danger
White or Green for clear

However, the flag signals remained red/green/white until 1967 when Sir Philip Wombwell changed the rulebook to read red/yellow/green!

Confused yet?

Peter in AZ

[Peter Butler]

Peter, as it will be yourself who is operating the signals and driving the trains, is there any possibility that you might mis-interpret any of the information?
I don't do signals!!! Can you tell?

[IrishPeter]

1884 - the nominal date of the Skebawn and Castleknox - is probably a bit late for this, but red for danger and white for clear is my preference.  So there is a clear rule there, so no possibility of confusion unless dead drunk and not paying attention.  A lot of the time I will be operating OES, so provided I set the road while the kettle is boiling we will be just fine.  

As to the red/white -v- red/green rule.  My suspicion is that no-one would have been in too much hurry to make an Irish backwater conform to the later red/green rule.  Well - that's my story and I am sticking to it.

The Swedes are the ones who do my head in.  At fore (distant) signals the caution aspect was flashing green, and the clear aspect was flashing white; whereas with stop signals it was red for danger and green for clear as it would be in the UK.

Peter in AZ