Figure Painting - a cheater’s guide

[Durley]

Has anyone experienced problems with compatibility between brands ? eg Citadel contrast over vallejo primer etc ?

Hi Paul, you should be fine with any brand of primer as long as it has dried fully before applying the contrast paint. As far as I know, all the different makes of contrast paint are water based acrylics so there is nothing particularly aggressive in them to affect any previous paint layers. The most important thing when using contrast paints is the underlying finish where you are after a smooth matte-satin finish ideally to allow the contrast paint to naturally flow over the surface. Some primers can leave a slightly grainy finish that causes the contrast paint to ‘cling’ to the surface rather than flow, although this in itself can be an interesting effect to hint at texture.

[Durley]

discovered a comparison/review which mentioned that Vallejo do an equivalent range to Citadel Contrast, it's called Vallejo Express.

Once you start digging there are loads of these types of 'contrast' paint. Citadel being the most expensive, but most accessible if you want to buy from a shop.
If you're happy with mail order, there's significant saving buying Army Painter Speedpaint or AK 3rd gen which both seems very similar style paint.
All the daft names aren't a concern, I'd choose by colour chart.
I'm just curious if there can be incompatibilities with different brands that might make life harder.

Again, mixing different brands of contrast paint on one model should be ok. My only reason for sticking with Citadel is I have got used to their flow and consistency so have learned how much paint to apply to get the effect I am after. Different brands have different consistency so go on to the model slightly differently, potentially adding to the learning curve to get decent results.

For what it’s worth, if I was to start afresh I’d probably go with the AK Interactive range just because the colours are aimed more at the (military) scale model so look to be more muted and less saturated.

I believe all contrast paints are just a mix of acrylic medium (to carry the pigment), pigment (providing the colour), flow enhancer (to give the free flowing properties) and retarder (to slow the drying time). In theory you could mix a contrast style paint yourself as all the components are available from art suppliers, but I suspect getting the mix correct would be challenging.

[Durley]

Army Painter, do some 'effects' products that you supposedly just dip the item into the tin, and let it drain off..

I think even I could manage that?

That’s a commercial product to do what wargamming painters call a ‘dip wash’. It’s a very quick way to add shadow and definition to a model. A worthwhile and really quick technique that does elevate the appearance of the figure by adding some tonal variation so it is not just finished with blocks of colour.

[Paul_in_Ricky]

Again, mixing different brands of contrast paint on one model should be ok........
For what it’s worth, if I was to start afresh I’d probably go with the AK Interactive range just because the colours are aimed more at the (military) scale model so look to be more muted and less saturated.

Thanks for all the info.
Having now spent too long looking at paint sample charts, I find it interesting that there’s not very much difference between any of the contrast paint system colour ranges.
Army Painter speedpaint seems to have lots of pale colours, AK quick gen has more darker colours and Citadel seems to have more very saturated and bold colours.
For railway use where repeatability is less of an issue, rather than in military modelling with specific uniforms to replicate, it seem more useful to have some good basic colours to mix with to create individual schemes.
I’ll take your advice and try a small selection of AK paints as a trial of contrast painting.

One of the good things about 3D printing figures myself is that I can print several at very little cost to practice on.

One aspect that could be interesting to research is what actual colours people wore in the periods we model. Any recent prototypes post 1940 are easy enough as there are plenty of colour photos available. As we go back further we have few of those resources, only text descriptions or art works. It also struck me looking at the Plynlimon photo posted here that even the tonal differences in old monochrome photos might be misleading due to the pre-panchromatic photography. There’s also the side issue that prior to the first world war we only tend to see photos taken in good weather due to the technical issues of early photography.
We might have to make our figures look like people expect them to look like, rather than factually accurate. (See Challoner’s latest colour scheme and it’s critics for an example of people not liking the, unexpected and unliked, but correct colours)

[philipy]

Funnily enough I was looking for a similar input yesterday and came across this site:
https://vintagedancer.com/1920s/fabrics-and-colors/

[Paul_in_Ricky]

Funnily enough I was looking for a similar input yesterday and came across this site:
https://vintagedancer.com/1920s/fabrics-and-colors/

That's a good find. It might also have some good photos for developing image prompts for AI figure creation.
I'm sure there's lots of information out there once you/we start digging. I just haven't had time yet.

[philipy]

After following the "Cheaters Guide" pretty closely, this is my first attempt. It isn't perfect, and the close up doesn't do it any favours, but it is a thousand time better than anything I've done before. So thanks very much, John. Hopefully I'll get better with practice.

Passenger 1 small.jpg (576.6 KiB) Viewed 1715 times

[Peter Butler]

Great start... I think the jacket and trousers work particularly well.

[Durley]

Good job Phil, I’d be happy with him. He looks really convincing with natural colours and tonal variations.

[ge_rik]

Looks 100x better than any of my efforts

Rik

[philipy]

Thanks chaps.

It does to some extent show in the fine details that my hand does not always do precisely as I intend (look at the splodge of darker paint on the 2nd button of his shirt, or his left eye!) - part of the perils of age.
Talking of eyes, that was a brilliant tip about painting one eye upside down!

One thing I did discover towards the end, is that the Contrast paints need a really, and I mean REALLY, good shake to get the deposited particles up from the bottom where they settle. I had naturally shaken the bottles each time before opening, and then followed the instruction to mix a drop or two with the Medium and I was surprised at just how thin the colour looked and how liquid it was. It was only by chance when I was about to use the red for his neckerchief that I noticed a thick layer at the bottom of the bottle, even after a shake. A further ferocious shake soon dispersed it but even then it soon seemed to start to settle again quite quickly. Looking at the other, darker colours used earlier, I noticed a sediment layer in all of them, which probably explains why they looked thin and runny.
I'll know for next time!

[Paul_in_Ricky]

One thing I did discover towards the end, is that the Contrast paints need a really, and I mean REALLY, good shake to get the deposited particles up from the bottom where they settle.

Useful information.
I found it interesting that the Army Painter Speed paints make mention of having ball bearing inside the bottles to aid agitation. Maybe something to add to other brands to help agitation ? I'd guess a small nut would be as good too.

[philipy]

Yes, I've seen the mention of ball bearings in Army Painter. I have used a nut in tinlets of Humbrol in the past for the same reason.
Following Durley's guide, I didn't find it very easy to judge the quanities when mixing. I do like the Vallejo dropper bottles and I'm debating whether to transfer my Citadel paints into them. There would presumably be some paint loss in the transfer, but if it makes using them easier/more precisely measurable, it could be worth it. They are available as kits with funnels and ball bearings on ebay.

[Paul_in_Ricky]

They are available as kits with funnels and ball bearings on ebay.

The funnels are just 3D printed and there are a couple on Thingiverse you can download yourself eg https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3055474 . Making a little stand for the bottle ought to be the work of two minutes in your CAD package of choice too

There's also a range of paint shaker on Thingiverse if you search for 'model paint shaker'. Some look useless, some work well, I've used one of the ones that fits a multi-purpose tool to good effect.

[Phil.P]

I was going to suggest Ball-bearings..

Whatever you use, a wash in isopropyl to remove grease/oil is a good idea..

I was also going to comment on the eyes. - They look fantastic!
So many figures look like they were painted with a rough wooden pole stuck somewhere. <G>

Phil.P

[philipy]

This is an interesting Gemini interaction, The other week when I was experimenting with what Gemini could do, it generated this figure, which I printed then just left on the shelf. Just looking at the colours, its hard to work out how to achieve them, given Citadel's weird names. Then I had a thought.. ."Ask Gemini".. so I did, expecting it to not know Citadel.

Please can you tell me which paints from the Citadel range would match the colours of the clothes in this picture?

Veg basket lady.jpg (81.36 KiB) Viewed 1014 times

This is what I got back!

That's a great question! Citadel paints are designed for miniatures and can be matched pretty closely to real-world colors. Let's break down the outfit:

Headscarf (Dark Blue/Greyish Blue):

For a dark, somewhat muted blue, you could try Kantor Blue as a base. If you want it a little more muted or greyish, you might mix in a touch of Mechanicus Standard Grey or even Corvus Black with the Kantor Blue.

Highlights could be picked out with Altdorf Guard Blue or a mix of Kantor Blue and a lighter grey like Administratum Grey.

Apron/Dress (Muted Blue):

This blue is lighter than the headscarf but still quite desaturated. I'd suggest starting with Stegadon Scale Green (it's a blue-green that can look quite blue in certain contexts) or perhaps The Fang.

For highlights, consider Russ Grey or Fenrisian Grey. If you want to lean it more towards a true blue, mixing in a touch of Altdorf Guard Blue with your base could work.

Cardigan/Jacket (Brown/Dark Earthy Tone):

This looks like a rich, dark earthy brown. A good starting point would be Rhinox Hide.

For subtle highlights, you could use Doombull Brown or a mix of Rhinox Hide with a little Mournfang Brown.

Trousers/Stockings (Olive Green/Muted Green-Brown):

These appear to be a drab, possibly olive-green or a very desaturated green-brown. Castellan Green could be a good base, or even Death Guard Green for a more desaturated, almost grey-green look.

Alternatively, for a more brownish-green, you might start with Mournfang Brown and mix in some Castellan Green.

Highlights could be done with Straken Green or a mix of your base with a touch of Krieg Khaki.

Boots (Dark Brown Leather):

Similar to the jacket, but possibly a bit darker or with a different texture. Rhinox Hide is excellent here.

Highlights could use Doombull Brown or Skrag Brown very sparingly on edges. You might also consider a wash like Agrax Earthshade after the base coat to deepen the shadows and add grime.

Remember that lighting and screen calibration can affect how colors appear, so these are suggestions to get you started! The best way to match them is to experiment on a test piece.

I think that's what you might describe as comprehensive, although without a complete set of Citadel paints I'm not sure how much use it is.
Worth remembering for other projects though, and possibly refining the prompt.

[Paul_in_Ricky]

What could a fun next question is "Please recolour this figure in Citadel Contrast colours and list the colours used and where"

Onn the other hand, I'm not sure that turning painting figures into 'painting by numbers' would suit me as it looses the creativity in painting.

[Durley]

That is very helpful Gemini answer, I can’t disagree with any of those suggestions. The only point to note is the colours mentioned are standard base and layer paints, not contrast paints, but I suspect prompting Gemini specifically for Citadel contrast paint colours would return appropriate alternative suggestions.

I think it does illustrate how AI can be genuinely helpful and save time, allowing us to focus on the bits of the hobby we may enjoy more e.g. the painting as opposed to trawling colour charts.

For the ultimate no skill option, full colour 3D printers exist (at a cost). I understand Modelu3D is looking at this technology so it can sell fully finished and coloured figures.

[Paul_in_Ricky]

https://www.techsoft.co.uk/products/3d- ... -3duj-2207

A fascinating bit of kit
Only £49k and £1k for a set of inks!

At a back of envelope calculation, I'd guess about £4 for materials alone for a 16mm figure. There's no information about print speeds, but the video looks like it's similar to resin printing.
The added time it would take to create suitable printing files would add to the commercial cost of figures.

I'd say it's unlikely to be viable for commercial use for a model supplier yet given they need to cover the cost of the printer into product prices.

However it will be interesting to see how long it takes for this technology to tumble in price to something more affordable. It's pretty much a normal inkjet printer with a light on the print head and a variable height printing platen. If the likes of Epson took it on I could see the price fall very fast.

[philipy]

The only point to note is the colours mentioned are standard base and layer paints, not contrast paints, but I suspect prompting Gemini specifically for Citadel contrast paint colours would return appropriate alternative suggestions.

Your wish is my command!


To match the colors of the clothes in the picture with Citadel Contrast paints, here are some suggestions:

For the Blue Dress/Apron and Headscarf:

Ultramarines Blue: This would give a vibrant, deep blue similar to what's seen.

Leviathan Purple or Shyish Purple: If you want to lean into the slightly purplish-blue tones often seen in older dyed fabrics, these could work, especially for the headscarf details.

Talassar Blue: This could also work for a slightly brighter blue.

For the Brown Coat/Cardigan:

Gore-Grunta Fur: This is a rich, warm brown that would be a good match for the main coat.

Cygor Brown: A darker, more desaturated brown that could work if you want a slightly grittier look.

For the Greenish-Brown Trousers/Stockings:

Militarum Green: This is a desaturated, somewhat earthy green that would be very close to the muted green-brown hue.

Aggaros Dunes: Could also work for a more brownish-khaki tone.

For the Brown Boots:

Wyldwood: This is a rich, dark brown that would be excellent for the leather boots.

Gore-Grunta Fur: Could also be used here if you want a slightly lighter brown for the boots.

Keep in mind that Contrast paints are designed to be applied over a light base coat (like Grey Seer or Wraithbone) to create shading and highlights with a single application. The final look can vary depending on your base coat and how thickly you apply the paint.