To notch or not to notch
Re: To notch or not to notch
It turns out I've been confusing what the word "drag" means. You're right, it's not "drag". The whole point to any device that attempts to make a toy engine act realistically isn't to resist motion, it's to resist acceleration. A friction device resists acceleration by resisting motion, and it applies a greater force parallel and opposite to the force applied by the locomotive in the direction of movement as speed increases. It will limit top speed. A flywheel device resists accelleration by absorbing a percentage of the force applied in the direction of motion by the locomotive and storing it in the form of angular momentum. It will not limit top speed. Therefore you are correct to say the Slomo does not add "drag" to the locomotive. However, during acceleration, there is more work being done to produce a given rate of increase in speed than there would be if the locomotive was not equipped with a flywheel and was simply being driven very carefully. There is greater force being applied to the crank, and therefore more wear is occurring. It may be your contention that it is not possible to control an engine carefully enough to create the same realistic accelleration as the Slomo does. I agree with you there. I believe slightly increased wear is the price you pay for the advantages of the Slomo, or the flywheel van that I use. Also, my engine is manually controlled, so I do put the regulator where I think it ought to be for the speed I want, and can't "drive" it.
God, I'm a bore. I think I've been arguing with myself because I imagined someone saying the flywheel device doesn't increase wear over time, and I have been arguing with that imaginary person. Enjoy your trains. Thanks for the discussion.
God, I'm a bore. I think I've been arguing with myself because I imagined someone saying the flywheel device doesn't increase wear over time, and I have been arguing with that imaginary person. Enjoy your trains. Thanks for the discussion.
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Re: To notch or not to notch
YES, we are on the same page.Keith S wrote: ↑Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:24 am It turns out I've been confusing what the word "drag" means. You're right, it's not "drag". The whole point to any device that attempts to make a toy engine act realistically isn't to resist motion, it's to resist acceleration. A friction device resists acceleration by resisting motion, and it applies a greater force parallel and opposite to the force applied by the locomotive in the direction of movement as speed increases. It will limit top speed. A flywheel device resists accelleration by absorbing a percentage of the force applied in the direction of motion by the locomotive and storing it in the form of angular momentum. It will not limit top speed. Therefore you are correct to say the Slomo does not add "drag" to the locomotive. However, during acceleration, there is more work being done to produce a given rate of increase in speed than there would be if the locomotive was not equipped with a flywheel and was simply being driven very carefully. There is greater force being applied to the crank, and therefore more wear is occurring. It may be your contention that it is not possible to control an engine carefully enough to create the same realistic accelleration as the Slomo does. I agree with you there. I believe slightly increased wear is the price you pay for the advantages of the Slomo, or the flywheel van that I use. Also, my engine is manually controlled, so I do put the regulator where I think it ought to be for the speed I want, and can't "drive" it.
God, I'm a bore. I think I've been arguing with myself because I imagined someone saying the flywheel device doesn't increase wear over time, and I have been arguing with that imaginary person. Enjoy your trains. Thanks for the discussion.
discussing is always a good thing.
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams
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Re: To notch or not to notch
I keep reading that a SSP Slomo causes more wear to a loco than one without. Does it cause more wear than say adding an extra wagon or two to a train or driving your loco on demanding track with gradients?
Until a SSP Slomo has been fitted to a brand new loco then the same loco purchased without a Slomo and then they are run in identical conditions over a period of time (talking years) to compare 'wear' then the statement of a Slomo causes more wear is false.
Please read the following:
http://smallsteamperformance.com.au/wear-issues/
Until a SSP Slomo has been fitted to a brand new loco then the same loco purchased without a Slomo and then they are run in identical conditions over a period of time (talking years) to compare 'wear' then the statement of a Slomo causes more wear is false.
Please read the following:
http://smallsteamperformance.com.au/wear-issues/
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Re: To notch or not to notch
tom_tom_go wrote: ↑Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:02 pm I keep reading that a SSP Slomo causes more wear to a loco than one without. Does it cause more wear than say adding an extra wagon or two to a train or driving your loco on demanding track with gradients?
Until a SSP Slomo has been fitted to a brand new loco then the same loco purchased without a Slomo and then they are run in identical conditions over a period of time (talking years) to compare 'wear' then the statement of a Slomo causes more wear is false.
Please read the following:
http://smallsteamperformance.com.au/wear-issues/
Yes, I am not yet convinced a Slomo mech causes more noticeable or measurable wear if one drives the loco gently and not forcing the flywheel up to speed quickly and also when slowing so the peak forces are kept low. Just as if you were driving or controlling anything with care.
As you say, I want to see data. Measurements taken of two new locos, one with fitted Slomo and one with out. Then control as far as possible all the conditions and variables. Record all. Then after time has passed, take measurements of the parts.
"I am also weary of anecdotal reports of what occurs because there are so many unmeasured or unrecorded variables, the locos set up and condition, driving technique etc etc. The plural of anecdote does not = fact."
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams
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Re: To notch or not to notch
It will cause extra wear, because it's an extra load for the loco. Anyway, if one can afford a ssp slomo, one can afford repairs
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Dave
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Re: To notch or not to notch
Running a loco with a heavy train causes extra wear as welldewintondave wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:02 am It will cause extra wear, because it's an extra load for the loco. Anyway, if one can afford a ssp slomo, one can afford repairs
Re: To notch or not to notch
Which is, of course, another solution!tom_tom_go wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:10 amRunning a loco with a heavy train causes extra wear as well
Want to tame your loco? Put a bigger train behind it.
Want your loco to chuff louder? Put a bigger train behind it.
Re: To notch or not to notch
The best way to avoid wear, as well as to make the most efficient use of a given quantity of butane or coal, is to leave the loco on a shelf and dust it off once in a while. This is what I do, and this style of running induces practically no wear to the running gear, uses very little butane, and the locomotive goes very slowly indeed. It's been on the shelf about a year now and the engine hasn't even moved far enough to run the slack out of the coupling chains. I have to admit, the chuff is extremely quiet however.
Re: To notch or not to notch
That's so very true. I don't run my locos enough to wear them out in my lifetime. With or without a slomo or running big trains.Keith S wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:11 pm The best way to avoid wear, as well as to make the most efficient use of a given quantity of butane or coal, is to leave the loco on a shelf and dust it off once in a while. This is what I do, and this style of running induces practically no wear to the running gear, uses very little butane, and the locomotive goes very slowly indeed. It's been on the shelf about a year now and the engine hasn't even moved far enough to run the slack out of the coupling chains. I have to admit, the chuff is extremely quiet however.
Ian
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Re: To notch or not to notch
Running a heavy train with a slomo equipped loco would be like cruelty to enginestom_tom_go wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:10 am Running a loco with a heavy train causes extra wear as well
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Dave
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Re: To notch or not to notch
Keith S wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:11 pm The best way to avoid wear, as well as to make the most efficient use of a given quantity of butane or coal, is to leave the loco on a shelf and dust it off once in a while. This is what I do, and this style of running induces practically no wear to the running gear, uses very little butane, and the locomotive goes very slowly indeed. It's been on the shelf about a year now and the engine hasn't even moved far enough to run the slack out of the coupling chains. I have to admit, the chuff is extremely quiet however.
Cheers from Dazza, The Hydrostatic Lubricator
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams
The chances of finding out what’s really going on in the universe are so remote, the only thing to do is hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied. Douglas Adams
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Re: To notch or not to notch
I thought I would post this in response although I obviously have a Slomo fitted
Re: To notch or not to notch
Amazing. A real driver on a full-sized locomotive would be hard-pressed to drive that delicately. Also, I love the simulated drain cocks. The little spurt of steam from the vicinity of the cylinders is very convincing and adds a lot of visual appeal.
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Re: To notch or not to notch
Here's my contribution, it doesn't have a Slomo fitted, unlike Tom's...tom_tom_go wrote: ↑Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:09 pm I thought I would post this in response although I obviously have a Slomo fitted
Zip along to 2:42
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Dave
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Re: To notch or not to notch
I recall a TV programme about thirty years ago, possibly "You Bet", in which a driver at the Mid-Hants Railway attempted to drive his loco, a Bulleid Pacific, up to another (the T9, I think) so gently that he could trap an egg between the buffers of the two without cracking it. Alas, he failed, but I reckon he must have succeeded many times before or they wouldn't have attempted it on Saturday evening telly. Although I believe Bulleid's loco's were fitted with Slomos...
Re: To notch or not to notch
Well, I DID say "hard pressed", not that it would be impossible! Of course, on a Bullied Pacific, the massive boxpok driving wheels and chain-driven valve gear probably has the same effect as a "slomo", so I don't know if you're quite correct about them not having one!
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Re: To notch or not to notch
Listen to that loud chuff, the poor NA must be struggling against the non-drag of the slomo!
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Re: To notch or not to notch
It has a Summerlands Chuffer fitted Dave.dewintondave wrote: ↑Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:44 pm Listen to that loud chuff, the poor NA must be struggling against the non-drag of the slomo!
Listen to these NA's you can hear the difference:
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Re: To notch or not to notch
That was a marvellous sight Tomtom_tom_go wrote: ↑Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:39 am It has a Summerlands Chuffer fitted Dave.
Listen to these NA's you can hear the difference:
They really do sound different
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Dave
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