Railbus for the PMR

[Big Jim]

A little project to keep me going over the next few months.



There is an easy way and a hard way to convert these, guess who is going down the hard route?

The running gear will be removed, the trailing bogie will be retained but moved inwards slightly. Propulsion will come from a Triang Big Big 040 block. I think it is crying out for some new seating and a set of lights.

[philipy]

Errr, Jim, think you've messed up the piccy... it just says "Image" on my screen.

[Big Jim]

Sorted

[LNR]

So this will be a post Cwmtwch tunnel job being a single decker an all!! Will Dai Uretic be the driver?
Grant.
PS still laughing.

[markoteal]

I knew it - I could smell a Railbus project in your story Jim!

My faller has also been taken out of service recently after doing the easier refit earlier this year (repaint etc) - come to the same conclusion it needs a proper power unit and RC for my e2e line - it is lined up for my Christmas hols loco works job

Here's it earlier in the year ex-works

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[Big Jim]

That looks nice. What power unit are you going to use?

[philipy]

Jim, Mark,
Why are you both changing the motor? My two car unit trundles quite happily with just one of the original motors?

[Big Jim]

Mine is a 12v unit. It runs okay but I don't want the thing filled with batteries.
I also fancy changing the position of the bogies so that their centers match as well. The layout of the running gear on these are a bit of a mess and I fancied a challenge.

[Big Jim]

Not the best picture in the world, but it gives an idea of what will be done with the Railbus.



The power bogie is an ex Triang Big Big unit, I like the outside cranks. I have moved the bogie mount for the trailing bogie inwards so that IMHO it looks more balanced. The OCD part of my brain does not like the original set up. I am going to use the original trailing bogie until I can find another Triang unit (If anyone has one going spare, let me know. All I want is the wheels and cranks. The motor does not have to work. )

I want raise the body slightly to give it a more scale look, I am also looking at ways to make the doors open via remote control as well.

[philipy]

Jim, I take your point about the bogies, they are pretty horrendous and I thought about changing mine but haven't bothered so far. However, no need to fill it up with batteries, I still have one of the original Faller motors which I assume are nominally 12v ( I haven't checked) but it runs nicely on one 3.7v LiPo. Hobby King do nice flat profile ones and I've got the battery, Deltang Rx, on-off switch and charging socket all in a plasticard housing hidden between the underframe trusses.

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[Big Jim]

That's a nice conversion that you have done there.
I think yours may have been a battery one originally as the wheels appear to be plastic so it could be a 3v motor.

Did you cut the power bogie down or is it original?

There were numerous versions of this model/toy. 12v track pick up, 3v Battery, Non powered push along. Some came with a clear roof, some with a grey plastic one. Screen printed lettering or stickers... the list is quite long. There were a load being sold on Ebay Germany a few years ago with 12v motors/wheel pickups fitted and a battery box with spring contacts, but no gearing on the wheels and no wiring inside. These may have been a batch knocked up from stock as push along toys using what ever was available. Although why they would not remove the motor I don't know.

[markoteal]

That looks nice. What power unit are you going to use?

Mmm - thats the challenge Jim- i haven't sorted one yet - umming and arring about using the Swift Sixteen one (and the non powered one ) I was toying with doing something a bit cheaper (remember I originate from Yorkshire) but having seen the coach to railbus conversion in the latest SMT, which uses the Swiftsixteen stuff, the chassis does look a nice job with that unit and the bogie sides you can buy .......where did I put my Santa list??????

Phillip - when I first got it, (as per the photos) it did happily plod around but I do want it to do some regular stopping and the switch thing on the side is hard to operate to stop it - with my big hands I often knock it into reverse, or derail it - so I did try a cheapo -(ex remote car) Rc with it - just forward and back and no ESC - which worked ok but because I had to splice the RC into the feed, I was finding it was now stuttering at times when running on the track (fine when its on blocks) - so I was thinking I probably need more power to run the motor (mines just a 3V battery job) and the RC - so going forward I want more volts in there involving more rechargable batteries as well as getting a upto date RC receiver/ESC (i.e.) Deltang that I can run through my TX20.

I also found as it ran, it wallowed along, building upto wobbling at points - on two occasions when I was operating it RC, the wobbling built up to such a degree that it fell off the track and down into the flower bed - on both occasions no permanent damage but it made my think I could do with some more weight low down - which again will put stress on the existing motor.

Thirdly because my line does have some gradients and some are on fairly tight corners, the current motor was prone to stalling at those points so having more weight and potentially more powered axles may help - I have even considered having two powered bogies but not sure if that would be overkill

I know I will have to sacrifice some of the passenger space to allow the motor in there (Parcels area mi thinks) and probably have a raised floor in part of the space for batteries and RC - I'm thinking I'll build a new chassis to hold everything, including new seating and then let the body sit on top of that (which some simple catch or screw to hold it in place) - however, once i start , sure things will change!

[philipy]

Both,
Yes they are plastic wheels and yes I did cut the power bogie down. I also looked at reversing it to put the wheels at approx the same distance from the end as the non-powed bogie, but decided it was too much work!
I can't remember if there was a battery compartment, and my memory tells me I removed pickups but I can't be sure. My non-powered trailer car certainly still has a battery box, but that came from a different source so is no guide.

They do both wobble, especially over points, as Mark said, but havent had major derailing. That horrible reversing lever was the first thing I removed, but I installed a Deltang Rx65b from the beginning and it works well with the Faller motor on a 3.7v battery.

As an aside I've got another one of these beasties that I started to widen to get it to a more "prototypical" width. Sliced it down the middle and added an inch or so to roof and floor, then chopped the cab off one end and put a flat end on. The plan was that if it turned out OK I would do much the same thing with the current 2 car unit and create a 3-Car DMU, but other things have got in the way.

[markoteal]

Cheers Phillip - good ideas there - adding extra width would certainly help the wobble!

[philipy]

Cheers Phillip - good ideas there - adding extra width would certainly help the wobble!

Actually my fear was that it would accentuate it because there would be even more weight above the bogies c of g. I think the only real answer to wobble is to put extended lateral bearers on the bogies.
In case you are interested, this is where I got to with it ( plus a similar strip in the floorpan.)

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...and now I'll stop hijacking Jim's thread. My apologies Jim.

[Big Jim]

Hijack away, the more the merrier.
I do like the wider version. I agree that the bogies would need to be wider.

[IrishPeter]

Cheers Phillip - good ideas there - adding extra width would certainly help the wobble!

Actually my fear was that it would accentuate it because there would be even more weight above the bogies c of g. I think the only real answer to wobble is to put extended lateral bearers on the bogies.
In case you are interested, this is where I got to with it ( plus a similar strip in the floorpan.)
Widened.jpg

...and now I'll stop hijacking Jim's thread. My apologies Jim.

That's beginning to looks a bit like a DB "Piglet Taxi." It is going on a 4 wheeler underframe by any chance?

Peter in Va

[philipy]

That's beginning to looks a bit like a DB "Piglet Taxi." It is going on a 4 wheeler underframe by any chance?

Peter in Va

Peter,
No, the plan was to leave it on its Faller bogies, if I ever finish it. The problem with it is that having widened it, the doors are now very obviously too low - they scale at about 4' 9" in 16mm, so I'm not sure its worth the effort.

[IrishPeter]

That's a shame after all that work! If I remember correctly, the Faller rail buses, in as much as they scale to anything at all, are about half-inch scale. However, it is a chewing gum ruler in this case, not just a rubber one.

Cheers,
Peter in Va

[GTB]

Actually my fear was that it would accentuate it because there would be even more weight above the bogies c of g. I think the only real answer to wobble is to put extended lateral bearers on the bogies.

The most stable arrangement for any given gauge is to use outside frame bogies. The best way to stop the body on a bogie vehicle wobbling as it proceeds down the track is to have side bearers for the body on the bogie bolster at one end.

With outside frames and bearings, the base of the stability triangle is where the wheels sit on the rails, with inside frames it is where the bearings sit on the axles. So with 32mm gauge, using outside frames mean the support base is at least 32mm wide, but with inside bearings it's less than 28mm.

The photo below shows the bogie mounting arrangement I've used for years in HO and now use in large scale, which gives a stable 3 point support. The bogie bolsters are flat on top and the spacers on the mounting screws allow one bogie to rock and tilt, but the side supports limit the other one to longitudinal tilt only. With this arrangement, especially with pass cars and vans, bogie vehicles don't shimmy along the track as is commonly seen with commercial OO gauge models.

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If you can't fit at least one bogie with outside bearings/sideframes, fitting outrigger body supports to one bogie will at least stop the body from rocking around, although the overall stability base will still be a bit narrower than it could be.

Regards,
Graeme