Cannot renew my 16mmngm membership

[sstjc]

Personally I prefer to avoid Direct Debits unless there is a financial incentive provided by the organisation you are paying. The problem with Direct Debits is that the company that sets it up can change the amount or take extra payments as they see fit or if they make a mistake. In this case Warners are an unknown quantity to me in this respect and thus far have been very inefficient so why would I give them such control over my bank account. In the quote below I would class the performance of Warners thus far to be inefficient.

The following comes from the Telegraph website but there is similar from all sorts or organisations:-

" While a direct debit is an authority that you give so that a retailer can claim money from your bank account to meet your bills or repay your loans. For instance, you can often arrange for mobile, gas and electricity bills to be paid in this way. The crucial difference is that with a direct debit, the retailer can make amendments without the need to obtain the customer's signature on each occasion.

This flexibility is the main advantage of the direct debit system – but there is a potential risk that unscrupulous or inefficient retailers might claim money that is not due to them."

[-steves-]

I must agree The old method using PayPal was best, I have tried to renew on line but failed so I sent the Direct debit form in still do not no if I am An ex-member or if I renewed How can I tell It's not come out of my bank account yet.

If you have online banking then you should see a DD setup under your Direct Debits area, failing that, ring the bank at least 2 weeks after you renewed and see if they have anything through as yet, but these things "can" take weeks to set up

[IanC]

IMHO Direct Debits are quite safe and reliable. It is quite difficult for businesses and organisations to become a direct debit originator. Only the largest and most financially sound can become originators.

All banks have an indemnity scheme in place whereby they will make an immediate refund to customers in the event of a disputed payment.

If there is a dispute it will be investigated and if it is found that the direct debit was actually correct the refund will be debited in due course. You will usually be asked to provide proof that the payment was not authorised, for example a copy of your letter cancelling the mandate, or evidence that the incorrect amount has been debited.

Next time you get a direct debit mandate to sign, have a look at the guarantee that comes with it. I suspect most of us don't read it.

Millions of payments are taken daily using this method. Whilst in theory it is open to abuse, in reality it is only human errors that lead to mistakes and incorrect payments being taken from accounts.

[sstjc]

Well my personal preference is to avoid direct debits where possible and I reserve the right to use other methods if I so wish. However this does not change the fact that all methods of payment offered by the Association should work equally well and in this Warners have let the Association and many members down very badly.
Barry

[stoker]

Well my personal preference is to avoid direct debits where possible and I reserve the right to use other methods if I so wish. However this does not change the fact that all methods of payment offered by the Association should work equally well and in this Warners have let the Association and many members down very badly.
Barry

If you refuse to use the,pefectly safe direct debit system,then why not post 'em a good old fashioned cheque?

[sstjc]

Stoker
I haven't had a cheque book for quite a number of years. I have no need for one usually. I have embraced the internet. Does anyone still use cheques these days ?
Barry

[stoker]

Stoker
I haven't had a cheque book for quite a number of years. I have no need for one usually. I have embraced the internet. Does anyone still use cheques these days ?
Barry

I used a cheque the other week to pay for car insurance!

In my defence,my mobile bone thingy failed to receive the OTC whatsit from my bank,so was unable to use the online bank transfer system(BACS),which is usually my first choice.

I do use Paypal,but it is expensive for the business concerned,so paying a sub to the narrow gauge lot that way just means that they get less cash...this may well affect future year's subs!

TBO,I have never,ever(I have just crossed both fingers and toes!)had any problems with DD,and it does ensure that the payee gets paid on time with the correct amount.

[Busted Bricks]

Some members don't live in UK so can't use cheques or Direct Debit. It looks like the new renewal process has already cost a few members.

I would dearly like to renew so I hope they sort out their system.

[sstjc]

I have had issues with direct debit. On one occasion a mafor energy supplier made a mistake with a decimal point when increasing my dd without telling me, which a dd entitles them to do. At the time taking £330 instead of £33 was a major issue especially as I found out the hard way when I was trying to pay for some shopping in a supermarket and payment was refused because it had made me overdrawn. It took over a week to sort out because the company concerned would not accept they could make such a mistake. That was a large supposedly responsible company.

Personally I would rather usd PayPal even if it means paying a bit extra to cover the costs.

I repeat that whatever payment methods are used by warners and the association should be managed properly and there is clear evidence that the online payment system has not been. As it stands Warners have my money and I do not know if I am a member. To take money for a service you don't then provide is fraud in my book and this needs to be sorted out before someone decides to take legal action. Its only a matter of time !

[Peter Butler]

Personally I would rather usd PayPal even if it means paying a bit extra to cover the costs.

I don't know how much Paypal charge for this service but I bet Warners don't do this for nothing! The difference in cost is not worth the loss of members and bad feeling towards the Association.... I hope this matter is brought up at the AGM and we can return to a tried and tested,user-friendly system.

[MDLR]

I hope this matter is brought up at the AGM and we can return to a tried and tested, user-friendly system.

.................. which took three or four years to get completely right (people forget this) and absorbed a VAST amount of time and effort to set up and run - so much so that we HAD to go for something different, which is where we came in!

[invicta280]

Well, I paid mine over the phone today, but not entirely relaxed about it. When your credit card may have a limit of many £1000's , you need to feel comfortable that the payee you are talking to on the phone is who they say they are.
Under the old system I would have paid my subs instantly but none of the options with Warners appealed to me.

My preferred option is Paypal which I regularly use and with which I have had no trouble. This no longer seems to be acceptable , and the alternatives...... I don't do cheques anymore. A postal order ( or whatever it's called this week) means a trip to the chemist shop which now masquerades as our local main post office to join the unacceptably long queue.
I can't be mithered with registering all manner of online b/s, passwords, account details etc etc just to pay a £17 bill.

How is it that the digital super highway is so cumbersome? I would bet money that 16mm NGM has lost members as a result of this.

Oh, and don't even mention direct debits - for the reasons outlined by those above.

[sstjc]

Very well put Peter...

Barry

[laurence703]

Only took me 5 minutes to renew... And there was a similar moan when paypal was used the first time and now some swear by it except you don't see the huge amount of work there is behind paypal as every renewal had to be process individually which wasn't easy for the membership secretary, it was pretty much a full time job during the renewal season.

If you've read the chairman's column in this months SMT, you'll know that the membership secretary will quite happily step aside if there's someone else who wants to do it. Also the AGM is the best time to put yourself forward if you don't like how things are done...

[maxi-model]

.................. which took three or four years to get completely right (people forget this) and absorbed a VAST amount of time and effort to set up and run - so much so that we HAD to go for something different, which is where we came in!

Quite probably this is an admirable solution for those who had to administer what appears to have been a laborious system. Problem is the chosen solution may not be the right one for the members.

As soon as I saw the copious instructions and then found there were more (unadvertised) notes in the "Shed Notices" to aid the process my hackles were up. It's only because I have come to value, over the past 7 years or so, the benefits and camaraderie of the association that I persisted with this flawed process. What of those who take a more casual "take it or leave it" approach to membership ?

Put up too many barriers and some may choose not to hop over them. I hope I am wrong. Was always taught the KISS principle. Max

[-steves-]

I hope this matter is brought up at the AGM and we can return to a tried and tested, user-friendly system.

.................. which took three or four years to get completely right (people forget this) and absorbed a VAST amount of time and effort to set up and run - so much so that we HAD to go for something different, which is where we came in!

So something that took 4 years to get right, was scrapped in favour of something that has definitely lost members, even if its only half a dozen or so. I guess thats business these days, sod the customer, its all about the money now and the bottom line, very sad but true everywhere I have no idea what Warner charge, but I can say its over priced for the lack of service, and does that weigh off the loss of really happy members against the time Paypal took? Not my issue any more, enjoy!

[sstjc]

I have to say lawrence703 I find all this talk of how long it took to get the paypal system right nothing more than a smake-screen. I believe I was one of the first to use the Paypal system to pay for mrmbership because when I rejoined the Association I did not have a cheque book. It has always worked faultlessly as far as I can recall.

I am not belittleing here the effort put in over the years and I have always said Alan Regan has done a first class job as membership Secretary but I do feel the renewal system was more labour intensive than it needed to be. Sending out over 4000 seperate renewals was not nessesary in my opinion. I have an internet shop which takes Paypal as its only means of payment. The shop software platform I use is free if you have less than 15 products therefore it would be free for the Association membership for renewals and new members as there are only a few membership options. It can be configured in many ways and could include a box for including a membership number for those renewing. Then all it would need is one blanket email inviting all members to renew.

I appreciate there would still be a certain amount of work but that would mostly be collating the renewals with the list of members. Thatever the additional cost of using paypal I would be happy to have added to my subscription for the convenience of useing Paypal.

Regardless of this I have a lot of respect for those that were doing this work and as others have said why change a system that has been so popular and has had so much work put in to get it right.

Using the Paypal website I calculate that The extra cost of paying the £17 membership fee would be 81pence. Not a lot and I would be happy to pay the extra.

Perhaps we should have been given the option....

[laurence703]

Understandable however we are where we are.
Nothing ever goes right first time and Warners and Alan are looking at improving it to make it as easy as Paypal was or near enough in any case. Its a learning curve for the board and you'll just have to bear with us for the time being, its new to us as well. Next year should be easier and if you're still having problems and are planning on visiting Peterborough AGM show this year, Warners will have a table in the Atrium where you can renew your membership.

I set mine up as Direct Debit so I never have to renew manually ever again which is great for me.

The Association is the largest of its type for our hobby and its becoming increasingly difficult for a few people to manage in their spare time, so if things do go amiss, a polite, thought out email is all that's needed to bring it to our attention. What would make it easier however is if people came forward and offered their services in running it but its understandable that not everyone can, same with Stewarding the show, can't have a show without stewards and its becoming increasingly difficult to reach the numbers needed to run it but again we are where we are and there are things we can do to still make it happen its just not entirely ideal. Next year we may make the show two days long but only if we have the volunteers that can assist.

But I'm now off topic and to bring it back on topic I'll summarise:
First year doing it, please bear with us,
More people to help run association would be most helpful,
Table at show to allow renewals,
Polite email to bring to our attention so we can help sort the problem

[-steves-]

I hope this matter is brought up at the AGM and we can return to a tried and tested, user-friendly system.

.................. which took three or four years to get completely right (people forget this) and absorbed a VAST amount of time and effort to set up and run - so much so that we HAD to go for something different, which is where we came in!

So something that took 4 years to get right, was scrapped in favour of something that has definitely lost members, even if its only half a dozen or so. I guess thats business these days, sod the customer, its all about the money now and the bottom line, very sad but true everywhere I have no idea what Warner charge, but I can say its over priced for the lack of service, and does that weigh off the loss of really happy members against the time Paypal took? Not my issue any more, enjoy!

[Enginehouse]

I have sent of a cheque for membership as requested and that's it. Having considerable past experience with Warners I refused point blank to provide them with any personal details other than membership number, name and address. If the cheque is not cashed so be it. I tried my hardest before this debacle began to warn Alan about this particular company and my own past experience of their "expertise" However I wasted my time, so if my membership is not renewed I will happily resign as the local group secretary and continue to build and play with trains as usual. However I will not actually know if membership is lapsed until told. I had already in preparation for this debacle increased our personal public liability insurance. Please note! I am considerably concerned about the amount of data members have casually passed on to Warners. Very much I feel a case of "watch this space".