I.P. Engineering gear sets

[Steven.T]

Hi everyone, I have recently been having problems with my plastic gears that I.P. use on their chassis kits. Just today I have found one of the gear teeth to be worn down, enough that in slow speeds it stalls and won't move the loco.
I am curious if anyone else has had these problems or if there is any suitable alternatives?
I'm a bit annoyed actually as I was all set to have the loco running tomorrow, now this might not happen.
Cheers,
Ste

[Pendo Pilot]

Yep, I have had the same problem. Is yours the plastic gearbox? If so you have to get it spot on with the gear mesh to avoid any excessive wear. (The old whitemetal gearboxes seem simple as mine just slots in to the motor shaft & sorted). Plus I found that the loco hitting an object (like twigs or wrapping grass around it's shaft) can easy strip/wear a gear.
Replacment gears are cheap enough from IP, but then again I have replaced about 5 (on 3 loco's) now so not so cheap in the long run.

[Steven.T]

Yep, mine are plastic, glad to know it's not just me with the problem. As you say they are fairly cheap, but considering I've hardly ran the loco to be honest :S
I don't think the whole assembly is any good, I have had to strengthen the gearbox itself with extra plastic!
The whitemetal ones seem like a better idea, possibly more expensive but probably don't wear as bad...
Cheers,
Ste

[Narrow Minded]

http://www.cambrianmodels.co.uk/16intro.html

Have a look at CA1, CA3 and CA4

[Steven.T]

http://www.cambrianmodels.co.uk/16intro.html

Have a look at CA1, CA3 and CA4

Thanks for that, unfortunately they don't do 16:1 in metal only plastic
Still, the plastic ones are cheaper than I.P.'s!

[Narrow Minded]

http://www.cambrianmodels.co.uk/16intro.html

Have a look at CA1, CA3 and CA4

Thanks for that, unfortunately they don't do 16:1 in metal only plastic  
Still, the plastic ones are cheaper than I.P.'s!

I think you'd find the 20:1 a suitable alternative

[Steven.T]

Yeah I just noticed that I might have to drill out the bore in the middle but it should fit...

I'm going to wait until Ivan from IP gets back to me first, see what he says!
Cheers,
Ste

[Steven.T]

I rang Ivan, he just sold me a new one.
I fitted it today, and have had it running on blocks for no longer than 5 minutes, and the new gear is wearing already

I'm starting to think the axle may not be straight, causing the uneven wear.

I'm getting a bit knarked off with it now, so much I am tempted to ditch the chassis and get an Essel one...

[Marquis DeCarabas]

Do you vaseline your gears?

[Steven.T]

....ermm..... no....
On the first set I used some oil from my N gauge trains, but I never thought of vaseline, does it help like?

[Steven.T]

And I've just re-read the instruction manual, don't use vaseline then!

Still, I haven't used it, I might shot a bit of grease on before tomorrows run,
Cheers,
Ste

[Marquis DeCarabas]

And I've just re-read the instruction manual, don't use vaseline then!  :lol:

Still, I haven't used it, I might shot a bit of grease on before tomorrows run,
Cheers,
Ste

Why shouldn't you use vaseline? What hidden bit of arcana is in the instructions?

[GTB]

Why shouldn't you use vaseline? What hidden bit of arcana is in the instructions?

Direct quote from the IP Engineering Ezee Railbus instructions...

"Grease gears with lubricating grease not Vaseline." You'd have to ask Ivan why he makes that statement.

Personally I used Labelle 106 plastic compatible grease, which I've used for decades in small scale models, many of which have acetal gears.

My IP railcars have now done about 2 hours running in on the bench and are showing no signs of gear wear.

However, I make my own simple gearboxes to ensure the gears are meshed properly.

Regards,
Graeme

[Steven.T]

Well after todays running session, which lasted all of 2 hours, the new gears are once again mashed (not sure if that is a technical term!)

Unless I can find some 16:1 metal/brass gears I might buy an Essel chassis...

[GTB]

I rang Ivan, he just sold me a new one.
I fitted it today, and have had it running on blocks for no longer than 5 minutes, and the new gear is wearing already  :evil:

Gear mesh is the most likely problem, not enough mesh from the sound of it. I don't have a model with the IP plastic gearbox, but looking at the photos doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence.

I've made my own simple ones from aluminium channel, similar to one that Tony Bird has in his thread on building mechs.

http://gardenrails.myfreeforum.org/about3520.html

The photo shows the gearbox for the 30:1 gears in my Ezee railbus, but the 16:1 gears used in the larger diesels would be similar, just the axle would be closer to the worm. The gears are 0.5mod, so the spacing is 10mm for the 30:1 gears, or 6.5mm for the 16:1 gears.



This particular gearbox has now clocked up 2+hrs of running, with no visible wear.

Regards,
Graeme

[Steven.T]

Wow, now that looks sturdy
I won't pictures of mine, unfortunately its a bit of a mess, I've had to strengthen it, tear it apart, rebuild it, and glue the brass bar which holds the motor up on with Araldite

When you say

Gear mesh is the most likely problem, not enough mesh from the sound of it

What does this mean, that the gears are not quite 'touching' properly?

If I can't get it sorted, I have just found these:
http://www.anticsonline.co.uk/597_1_14606.html

They might do the trick....

Cheers,
Ste

[spooner]

Squires tools sell a motor & gearbox [part 570-130 £4.99]that could be yessed as a replacement.The wheel,buses and crank of the motor end would need drilling out to 4mm and the inserts in the wheels turning round.I hope this is of some use?
IAN

[Steven.T]

Hi, Thanks for the pointer, unfortunatley the gear ratio isn't what I'm looking for. I think I am going to order one of the 20:1 gears from Cambrian which are metal. If they fail I am going to by an Essel Chassis

Thanks
Ste

[GTB]

Wow, now that looks sturdy  :shock:

The more sturdy the better with gearboxes. Waving around in the breeze does gears no good at all.....

What does this mean, that the gears are not quite 'touching' properly?

Yes, if just the tip of the gear is wearing, the gears are only partly engaged and if it is on only one side, the gear isn't central on the worm.

If gears aren't engaged properly, the load isn't spread out across the teeth and wear is rapid. You also need to make sure the axle and hence the gear, can't move sideways in and out of engagement.

In the olden days, we reckoned a cigarette paper clearance between the gears was about right for HO scale models when building a chassis. That's a spacing of probably about 0.05mm.

The gears are a bit bigger in the garden scales, and while I haven't done the calculations, I'd think the thickness of a piece of normal laser printer paper (0.1mm) would be the maximum desirable.

Basically, you put a piece of thin paper between the gears and tighten the spacing right up. When the paper is removed, the clearance will be right.

If I can't get it sorted, I have just found these:
http://www.anticsonline.co.uk/597_1_14606.html

They might do the trick....  :twisted:

If they are 0.5mod gears (the entry doesn't say), the 16 tooth one will be a direct replacement for the 16 tooth IP gear. That will stop the gear wearing, but it will then wear the plastic worm gear, if the mesh isn't set right.

There are a lot of spur and bevel gears of the right sizes for garden railway locos available cheaply from shops that deal in IC engined racing cars. They should last forever in a loco as they are under a lot less strain. They rarely use worm gear drives in model cars though, so you end up with multi-stage gears and the consequent noise to get enough reduction for locos.

I must 'fess up to having a mill-drill and a lathe in my workshop, but there may be a local model engineer that would be prepared to help out with gearboxes. There's about 1/2 hour of work in making a simple one, if you have the right tools.

Regards,
Graeme

[bessytractor]

this seems to be a recurring problem, you would have thought IP would have realised the gears aren't much cop.