Inside Cylinders

[HereticUK]

I am curious: is there an example of anyone attempting to create a locomotive with inside cylinders (à la LMS Jinty, for example) in 16 or 15mm scale, without resorting to using a motor with oscillating cylinders?

[GTB]

I am curious: is there an example of anyone attempting to create a locomotive with inside cylinders (à la LMS Jinty, for example) in 16 or 15mm scale, without resorting to using a motor with oscillating cylinders?

There aren't a lot of 2' gauge prototypes with inside cylinders, as the narrow frame spacing restricts the size of cylinders you can fit, especially so for a loco with inside frames. Depends on the gauge, inside cylinders were common enough in smal 3'6" locos.

There are published designs for inside frame models in Gauge 1 with two inside cylinders, so there's no reason it can't be done in SM45 or Fn3. In O gauge the designs are more likely to have only have one cylinder, which is also used in Gauge 1. The G1MRA 'Project' design based on the LMS 4F is single cylindered, but the 'Dee' 4-4-0 has two inside cylinders. G1MRA publish construction manuals for both designs.

Graeme

[DVT Dweller]

Are we talking standard guage or narrow gauge here?

[HereticUK]

Are we talking standard guage or narrow gauge here?

Narrow gauge.

There are, as you said, examples of metre-gauge and larger locos but I was wondering if it were possible to recreate in 16mm or even 15mm scale.

EDIT: I was thinking 45mm gauge would be a lot easier due to the extra space.

[DLRdan]

I think DeWinton made 3 saddle tanks with inside cylinders but don't know of any others.

[williamfj]

Inside cylinders were also used on narrower gauges, Crewe Works' 18inch gauge internal railway for example with Pet preserved at the National Railway Museum.

[TommyDodd]

In the early days of the hobby, it was the default option. Most early Archangel locomotives used a single cylinder and slip eccentric valve gear, with dummy outside cyls if the prototype called for it. Even today it's a common setup in gauge 1, with the popular "Project" loco (LMS 4F 0-6-0) and derivatives using it. Of course you only get 2 chuffs per revolution instead of 4, which would only be prototypical for a Webb or Von Borries compound, but it does mean the exhaust beat is clearly audible even at higher speeds.

[HereticUK]

Some useful information there guys! Would I be right in assuming that slip eccentric valve gear would take up less room than, say, simulated Stephenson's valve gear as used by Accucraft?

[DLRdan]

Simulated stevensons will take up less room but will only work with a piston valve cylinder that has a reversing valve fitted, slip eccentric can be used with either slide valve or piston valve and will only take up slightly more room.

[LnBmad]

Simulated stevensons will take up less room but will only work with a piston valve cylinder that has a reversing valve fitted, slip eccentric can be used with either slide valve or piston valve and will only take up slightly more room.

Disagree about the space slip eccentric takes up. You can make it very small. The eccentrics still need the same throw if running the same cylinders.

[DLRdan]

The simulated gear has one eccentric per cylinder but slip eccentric also needs to have the stop collars. Im not going to disagree that you can make the parts very small or in the case of the basic series locos fit it behind the wheel, it will still need the extra part on the axle though.

[LnBmad]

Really does depend on how it's made. My dad got slip eccentrics between the wheels and frames on his Dorothea.

[Big Jim]

There have been a few examples of 16mm locos built on the Burton Jinty Chassis that was a single cylinder Slip/E loco.
I think Colin Binnie may have made one.
I have a Burton Jinty that I think might end up bashed as the body is in very poor shape.
As others have said Stuart Brown at Archangel made several models like this as well. Including the wonderful Brick, (I have a very sick example of one of these that I think is probably beyond repair.)

[steamyjim]

There have been a few examples of 16mm locos built on the Burton Jinty Chassis that was a single cylinder Slip/E loco.
I think Colin Binnie may have made one.
I have a Burton Jinty that I think might end up bashed as the body is in very poor shape.
As others have said Stuart Brown at Archangel made several models like this as well. Including the wonderful Brick, (I have a very sick example of one of these that I think is probably beyond repair.)

What would you say is wrong with the Brick? Nothing is beyond repair!

[LnBmad]

Will happily take a look at brick for you Jim. Sure it can be resurrected.

[HereticUK]

At last I have created a discussion that hasn't broken down into great confusion!! This is a momentous occasion for me

This is all great information here guys! Thanks a lot! The reason I asked is because any locos I have come across in the 15mm or 16mm scale seem to have either 0-4-0 inside cylinder, geared motor, or outside cylinders. I was looking into the possibility of creating a 0-6-0 or even 0-6-2 loco with outside frames and inside cylinders and simulated valve gear (as opposed to slip eccentric). Obviously this may never come to fruition but it is nice to do some preliminary research for interest's sake.

[Big Jim]

Blimey, nothing like making life difficult for yourself.
This could be an interesting one. Keep us informed of progress.

[HereticUK]

Yeah I was only toying with the idea really. At the moment I don't have the money nor the time to start messing around with all that so it could be years until anything is even started. No matter.

[DLRdan]

I had forgotten about this one. Its from Accucraft and has inside cylinders with outside valves and valve gear.

http://www.accucraft.de/Produkte/1_20_3 ... team_.html

[HereticUK]

Oh yeah I had forgotten about the Saxonian IIIK. I didn't realise the cylinders were between the frames on this one... What kind of valve gear is that utilising though? I've ever seen it before...