Avontuur railway Walmer branch Bagnall

[INJIN]

Has anyone any information on this loco?
The only stuff I can find is in 24inches apart, there is a bit of an outline drawing & one photograph. I think it would make an excellent model in 16mil & maybe a future project.

Anyone out there seen a model of it or built one themselves?

Keith

[Annie]

It certainly has a wonderful colonial look about it. Looks very Sharp Stewart-like in my opinion.

[spooner]

Built in 1908 by Bagnall for the Walmer branch South Africa No.NG33&34.Thay were a tank engine version of the 4-6-0 "Type B" of the CGR.Roundhouse running gear would be a good starting point for a model in 16mm.

[Annie]

Tricksy Bagnall engineers building Sharp Stewart look-a-likes....... mutter mutter.....

[DaveWatkins]

Looks like American style bar frames in the photo. Still if you used plate frames no one would notice.

[TommyDodd]

Hooray! Someone else who likes this prototype, which has been on my "one day" list for 20 years. I've failed to find a drawing, even here http://www.sarsteam.co.za/cid-8-1-info.html . I've tried blowing up the drawings in Moir (too fuzzy) and scaling up the picture from known dimensions (angle of the shot makes it tricky, lots of construction lines and headscratching) but it might yet yield to another effort. The information in the Plateway reprint of the Bagnall catalogue is limited, but still worth having. The makers' portrait seen in 2 versions, the cropped catalogue version you've shown and another complete with drawing-office midget (ooh, look how big it is next to this average man! They all did it, you know...). I've only ever seen one other picture of one, a head-on shot at the Port Elizabeth end of the line (apparently in the street outside the station entrance) and that was a screengrab of a still from a DVD (this DVD http://www.trainpictures.com.au/show_pr ... =4508&cat= sample excerpt here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KclqcNzcTjA ). A bit poor and desperate, but it doubled the number of pics I've seen of them.


blow-up of the loco


As for the prototype, what I've found out is that it's a tank version of a Bagnall modified copy of an American design, hence the bar frames and big cylinder+smokebox saddle casting. The Hopefield railway opened with three Baldwin 2-6-0s, which were a bit too small. Next the CGR went to Bagnalls instead and asked for something a bit beefier (but keep the bar frames, please) which yielded the 4-6-0 B class. Finally these were the tank version, built for the Walmer branch (a suburban commuter line, with some on-street running), and disappeared when it surrendered to bus competition in 1929. And if anyone else can discover any more, a hearty ME TOO to whatever you can find.

[INJIN]

Thanks for all the responses..............

So....it's not going to be as easy as I thought. I too have searched like you & found virtualy nothing. The only thing I can do when the time comes is to use the Sidney Moir drawing & the works photo & see what I can come up with. The frames would have to be correct bar type if I where to build one though.

It'll have to wait until I've finnished the NG4 which celebrates it's centenary next year, so I'm pulling out all the stops to complete it exactly 100 years after the original.

[Crackingjob]

Fantastic engineering

I must admit the original picture reminds me of a Roundhouse lady Anne but with more wheels...possibly modify a LA body shell?

[INJIN]

I must admit the original picture reminds me of a Roundhouse lady Anne but with more wheels...possibly modify a LA body shell?

No...... I'll have to make it myself..............it's the Law!!

[Matt]

To me, it looks like a cross between a Leek and Manifold 2-6-4 and a Hunslet WD 4-6-0.

[Dr. Bond of the DVLR]

To me it has smatterings or Russle...

[INJIN]

To me it has smatterings or Russle...

Here's one they made earlier............by Hunslet!!

[Dr. Bond of the DVLR]

That'll be why then! Lovely looking locos!

[spooner]

I like all these designs. I'm slowly making Hunslet version.

P.S.Have you notice the drawing in "24 Inches Apart" of Walmer branch coaches?

[INJIN]

[quote="spooner:76492"]I like all these designs. I'm slowly making Hunslet version.

Excellent...........any chance of some pix?

[GTB]

Anyone out there seen a model of it or built one themselves?

As you've already found, about the only published information is in Sydney Moir's book and the Bagnall catalog reprint. I gather there is a SAR diagram around, but it is basically just a larger version of the weight diagram in the book.

I doubt Alsthom have kept anything, but if you are lucky the Bagnall drawings may have gone to a museum or library collection somewhere in the UK, as the Bagnall drawing office wasn't closed down until '61, when EE took over.

A friend started building one using a Roundhouse boiler and cylinders, but had clearance problems around the front end when running through #4 turnouts, and it was completed as a 2-6-2T.

Large, low-slung cylinders and an outside frame leading truck are a recipe for problems on tighter than scale curves. I assume you have already tested your NG4 chassis on your track?




It runs faultlessly and was running at the Great Southern Steam Up this weekend in Melbourne.

The Walmer branch engines are basically what Bagnall thought a Baldwin tank looked like and we've heard the model identified as a VR NA class by viewers that don't really know what they are looking at .........

Regards,
Graeme

[INJIN]

That is VERY nice indeed.

The Ng4 goes over Peco turnouts with no problem which have the sharpest curvature on my line. I'm going to try it around the Phurcombe Hall layout next weekend & I'm pretty sure it'll get around that too. The VOR 2-6-2 I built last year has no cut outs in the frames & manages Phurcombe, so fingers crossed.

The cylinders although not fitted when the photo was taken are smaller than the part of the frame that they mount on to.

The Walmer loco I hope will be the next in the workshop.

[GTB]

The Ng4 goes over Peco turnouts with no problem which have the sharpest curvature on my line.

Ah ha...     I tend to forget that not everyone uses 45mm gauge.

Crossovers are usually where things go wrong, but it looks like you have plenty of clearance, due to the combination of narrower gauge and the wide spacing of the frames.

The model in the photos I posted runs on 45mm gauge and there is nowhere near the same clearance around the cylinders.

Regards,
Graeme

[jabsteam]

I tend to forget that not everyone uses 45mm gauge.

Crossovers are usually where things go wrong, but it looks like you have plenty of clearance, due to the combination of narrower gauge and the wide spacing of the frames.

The model in the photos I posted runs on 45mm gauge and there is nowhere near the same clearance around the cylinders.

Regards,
Graeme

I have that same problem with my Accucraft WD Baldwin 4-6-0 on 45mm track. Had to to some judicious Dremel work to the backside of the cylinder heads for better wheel clearance.

Seems like the 4 wheel lead truck loco's don't scale up well from 32mm to 45mm track...

[Keith S]

Does anyone remember seeing those old videos of the Beatles when they first arrived in America...how the girls were screaming, fainting, and practically pissing themselves when they first got glimpses of the fab four getting out of their aeroplane?

That's almost how I felt when I saw these pictures:

What a nice looking engine, and what good pictures!!