IPE Coach Kits

[dougrail]

Okay, so I am considering in the mid term future starting to acquire my own coaches as I have both a 'small' and a 'big' engine now. But how do you build the IPE kits? [Im considering the VoR ones...]


So...you buy your kit, you receive it in its pieces...then what?

What tools do you need?

Do you paint and glaze each part before assembling it?

What paints are best?

Any particular glue 'the best' for the job?

Are corner braces needed?

In short, the queries of an absolute beginner and any input gratefully welcomed.

[Dr. Bond of the DVLR]

You'll need a knife, some sand paper, super glue (optional) woodglue, a square, epoxi glue (for the axle boxes) and maybe a small file. Paint to suit. Couldn't be simpler. If you are unsure buy the simplest coach kit you can first before going for a more complex one.

[invicta280]

I built one with no previous experience and i'm fairly ham fisted.
I used spray cans (primer and topcoat) from precision paints who i found very helpful and i was pleased with the result.

You can build it as supplied or else lavish as much extra detail as your skill/time allows.

[MuzTrem]

The other thing to note with IP kits is that their instructions are excellent. The instructions for the VoR brakevan kit I got last Christmas tell you what stage is best to paint the bodywork, so you shouldn't need to worry on that score. The first kit I ever built was IP and I made a reasonable job of that, so I would definitely recommend them

[LlanpwllBrynwyn]

I was in the same boat as you 2 months ago, at the Peterborough Show I bought a couple of the freelance 4 wheel coaches from I.P. The instructions are excellent and if followed a monkey could make it!

Anyway here is the brake I built, awaiting its roof and general finishing off... Lamp and iron are from Chiffed 2 Bits.

[dougrail]

Thanking you all very kindly for the help! I am thinking a corridor rake of bogies would complement my engines very well...I see.

[MDLR]

One tip I'll pass on: glue a length of coffee stirrer inside the sides of the kit, so there's somwhere for the floor to sit up against - it makes assembly that much easier. Also, Peco track pins can be used to pin sides to ends - at least until the glue goes off.

If you want to get your kit back after you've built it, build it with superglue and then drop it - don't laugh, I've seen it happen!

[Spule 4]

All-

I am glad Doug posted this as it gives me a chance to ask a question I was wondering just today.

How do the new laser cut coach stock between Brandbright and IP compare?

I have kit-built and scratch-built wood stock in many scales, anything from a laser kit to a few bits of wood and a photo to go by... , so I know some kits are "better" than others, both in the quality of the kit itself and the accuracy to prototype.

Specifically what I am looking at now are the Talyllyn coaches from IP and Brandbright (new?) and the Festiniog Ashbury coaches from Brandbright.

From a practical standpoint, I should probably stick with the Talyllyn cars as I have a Tenmille Talyllyn ticket/luggage/guards van I built back in the 1980s (with the wonky plastic sides) that needs some TLC and to be put back on the rails.

[MDLR]

Generally, IP coaches have a single or two layer side and they don't "do" interiors, other than seats - the Brandbright coaches have multi-layer sides (so you don't see the glazing other than in the windows) and have excellent interior detail - also their "tab & slot" design means that even a complete dunderhead like me can make a reasonable stab at them.

Take a look at: http://www.mdlr.co.uk/saloon.html for detailed pictures!

[dougrail]

Hmm, I also would like to complete my TR 4-wheeler rake. Having looked at the two brands, £41 inc wheels vs £96 no weels but detailing...I'd likely go for the first one as a beginner.

[MDLR]

Hmm, I also would like to complete my TR 4-wheeler rake. Having looked at the two brands, £41 inc wheels vs £96 no weels but detailing...I'd likely go for the first one as a beginner.

I think I'd agree with that............ you can always add interior detailing and lighting to the IP one, but watch the buffer / couplings - I had issues with buffer locking with the IP ones as they're a little on the small side and ended up swapping them for Brandbright ones.

[dougrail]

One tip I'll pass on: glue a length of coffee stirrer inside the sides of the kit, so there's somwhere for the floor to sit up against - it makes assembly that much easier. Also, Peco track pins can be used to pin sides to ends - at least until the glue goes off.

If you want to get your kit back after you've built it, build it with superglue and then drop it - don't laugh, I've seen it happen!

What glue would be best then?

[Steven.T]

I use wood glue on my I.P. Kits, haven't had any drop to bits yet

[dougrail]

Okay, next up - painting them. Enamels from a tin and brush, or spraycans?

If using brushes, how best to achieve a flat smooth surface?

[MDLR]

You don't HAVE to use paint at all - B&Q do a range of coloured stains for garden furniture and the like (look for Cuprinol Heritage Garden Shades) which you can get in sample pots. It works quite well - look at my Hudson Riding Van http://www.mdlr.co.uk/hudson.html which was finished in it. You could also use stains internally - a dark one (like Walnut or black oak) for the floor, a mid-tone (red mahogany, perhaps) for the seats and lighter still (pine or light oak) for the sides. It's actually best applied before assembly as then the glue doesn't show up. I've got a selection of around a dozen in stock as I use them so much.

[Spule 4]

Thanks for the replies.

Brian, thanks for the link.  It does bring up a question on the warpage, I have had a few kits and bits of wood warp over time during construction.  

On single layer bits of material, sometimes the warppage is spotted before making the kit or using the wood, and if not then, any warpage afterwards can often be linked to a conventional wood glue (waterbase) or painting just one side of the wood and not the other.  This is why several US wood kit makers suggest using CA for wood kits (I don't like it for that application myself, but do use it for other kits such as resin or metal to styrene joints).

But with the Brandbright kit, the wood looks like thin ply, which makes me wonder if the warpage is the wood itself, as thin ply generally alternates the grain by 90 degrees to prevent warpage, but can still warp itself, but (my experience) is that it is less likely to warp due to the paint and glue issues.

Either way, the warpage problems and corner issues shown make me wonder if the Brandbright kits should be avoided, or is this due to the comment of not making the sides and ends as instructed?

I do like the interior features and the lighting was an interesting idea, my father used to use small diameter rod as "bus bars" to supply power for lighting in HO coaches and cabooses back in the 1950s, similar approach.

The finish idea with stains is a good one too, and here in the US we have quite the range of stains in mnay colors (blues, greens, reds, including the normal lights, cherry, dark, etc.)

And a question on the Talyllyn buffer comment, I assume the binding problems were on the "twin" buffers and not the center single ones. My Tenmille van has the Tenmille twin buffers and center hook and chain, but I don't think they sell these anymore, or if so, I cannot find them. A shame, the detailing is nice.

Thanks again to all for the info!

[MDLR]

I had floors warp on Brandbright kits in the past, but they've always supplied replacement parts. The buffers were standard (for the UK) single centre buffers with hooks - the smaller IP ones would sometimes lock on curves - particularly with the bogie coaches. I'd forgotten that the Talylyn used double buffers................

[Spule 4]

I had floors warp on Brandbright kits in the past, but they've always supplied replacement parts. The buffers were standard (for the UK) single centre buffers with hooks - the smaller IP ones would sometimes lock on curves - particularly with the bogie coaches. I'd forgotten that the Talylyn used double buffers................

OK, I see now, the IP ones are a bit on the tiny side!

Good service if they supply replacement parts, thanks again Brian.

[Steven.T]

I've learnt with the I.P buffers to buy the Roundhouse type, they are much bigger and don't look as pathetically small

[GTB]

My main issue with ply kits is that the parts are usually laid out for minimum ply usage, which is not necessarily the best direction for long term stability, or for making it easy to scribe in boards if desired.

Plywood, especially 3 ply, is more flexible in one direction than the other. The thin sheets bend easily along the line of grain of the outside veneers, but is noticeably stiffer if you try and bend it across the grain of the outside veneer.

I always use sanding sealer on wooden model parts, mainly so the grain isn't visible when painted, but it also helps prevent thin ply warping as the weather changes. Ply is still wood and will move around a little with humidity changes and it needs adequate bracing to keep everything square in the long term.

FWIW. A good rule of thumb for adequate bracing is that if it doesn't move visibly with moderate finger pressure then it probably won't warp over time.

There are superglues and then there are superglues. There are now grades available that have some impact resistance, making the joints less likely to break when dropped. I've recently trialled a newish brand of CA from the US called 'Gorilla Superglue' for constructing wooden bodies and so far it seems to be as strong as the aliphatic PVA wood glue (the yellow type) I prefer to use on wood.

I haven't tried the standard RAN drop test on the model I'm working on, but joints in wood made with the Gorilla brand of CA are very hard to break after it sets. With normal CA or yellow PVA I can usually break the joint cleanly with a sharp rap on the bench, but not with this stuff. If you come back after a while and something has moved during setting, the joint will need to be cut apart and the break will be in the wood, not the glue layer.

While I think of it, IP use 3mm plywood for major parts and at that thickness the laser leaves the cut face at a noticeable angle. Thin sheet will have the same angle, but it can be ignored over that short a distance.

A nice flat block of wood with a layer of 240 grit aluminium oxide sanding sheet (the white stuff) glued on one face is good for removing the scorched layer from the cut and for squaring up corners before gluing. I find you have better control if the sheet is glued to the block, than when trying to keep a piece wrapped around the block in the traditional manner. 3M make rolls of the stuff that are self adhesive, which makes it easy to change the sheet as needed and I also use it to make up various size sanding sticks and miniature sanding blocks to get into tight corners, clean up window openings, etc........

As the Americans say, your mileage may vary............

Graeme