What is it? An F&B 0-4-2 - FINISHED

[Andrew]

I like this!

Have you sorted a colour yet?

You mention that "What I was hoping for, from those who know an awful lot more about the Festiniog than me, was something along the lines of, "Well nobody really knows for sure but XXXXX is a pretty good match for what we do know"."

Does Glenn Williams, the chap who paints the FfR's locos and rolling stock, fit the bill?

I found a post from him (well, I'm 99% sure it's him) on RM Web, where he says:

Merddin Emrys and Taliesin are now both in the same shade of red along with Palmerston. This colour has been nixed by us based on archive evidence and from what the local used to describe the colour as, in this case Ruabon brick red. Prince and Princess are also in a shade that almost exactly the same.

David Lloyd George is also in a colour mixed by us but is the colour that was perceived as correct almost 30 years ago now. We now know this to be incorrect from the evidence we have but it'd be boring if all the engines were the same ;o) and hence at its last repaint we kept it the same.

We do know that the original colour of ME was green with rounded corner lining.

Glenn

Still not quite an answer, but close - "we've done some research, some of which was wrong, we're still not sure, but we've opted for this"? RH use BS449 (officially "Light Purple Brown") for the traditional Fairlie colour. Don't know how close that is to Indian Red, but India's a big place...

Andrew.

[philipy]

Thanks Andrew. I think I've seen that or something very similar, before.
It all boils down to the bottom line "your guess is as good as mine"!!
FWIW, when the weather warms up and dries up, I'm going for "Hycote Red Primer"

I did manage to get an undercoat on before the weather went mancky back in early December.

Since I can't do anything else to the loco for now, I've spent the last couple of weeks drawing up the coaching stock to go with it.
This is the All Third, but I've also drawn the Brake Third and the 1st/2nd Composite.

Screenshot 2025-02-07 16.32.07.jpg (170.13 KiB) Viewed 40022 times

Again, there doesn't seem to be any info on livery apart from the lettering visible on the few photos, or internal fittings. So I'm doing them in the same red as the loco and guessing at internal colours. The 1st compartment is known to have had a carpet and curtains though!

[tommygander1941]

Thanks Andrew. I think I've seen that or something very similar, before.
It all boils down to the bottom line "your guess is as good as mine"!!
FWIW, when the weather warms up and dries up, I'm going for "Hycote Red Primer"

I did manage to get an undercoat on before the weather went mancky back in early December.

Since I can't do anything else to the loco for now, I've spent the last couple of weeks drawing up the coaching stock to go with it.
This is the All Third, but I've also drawn the Brake Third and the 1st/2nd Composite.

Screenshot 2025-02-07 16.32.07.jpg

Again, there doesn't seem to be any info on livery apart from the lettering visible on the few photos, or internal fittings. So I'm doing them in the same red as the loco and guessing at internal colours. The 1st compartment is known to have had a carpet and curtains though!

There is suggestion that no specific colour was specified and so Manning Wardle delivered the locos in their standard dark green. Lining was light green and red for the tank. Then black frames and wheels lined in red.

[philipy]

Thanks Tommy.
Yes I knew all that, but the bottom line is still that nobody knows for sure - even the the two green pictures you've posted show significant differences in their interpretation of the application of MW green.

Edward Paget Tomlinson painted over 30 pictures of the FR and couple of them included F & B trains wherein the locos and coaches were in a shade of red. The "Tren Bach Llan ..." book by Chris Jones has chosen to use a red shade, and the fairly modern transport artist Jonathan Clay has also chosen to use red in his paintings. So I feel that I'm in good company with my own choice and, atm at least, nobody can definitively say that it's wrong.

[philipy]

It's been a long time since I updated this thread, but progress has been unbelievably slow. However, finally the basic paint job has been done and it is running. Still a lot of detail to add of course and the paint job to be finished, but I'm pretty pleased so far. The Bissell truck swivelling rear axle is working well and it goes round my tightest curves without noticing them - thanks Graeme.

All 3D Printed in resin apart from the motor, gears and axles of course and the wheels are filament rather than resin.

[Durley]

I do like the look of that and runs as well as it looks!

[LNR]

Nice one Philip, I've admired that loco in the past as a live steamer. It will look great with the cab and detail. Very smooth runner.
Grant.

[ge_rik]

Looks good and runs really smoothly.

Rik

[GTB]

Still a lot of detail to add of course and the paint job to be finished, but I'm pretty pleased so far.

Glad to hear you are happy with how it has turned out. Detailing takes forever, but at least you know the light at the end of the tunnel isn't an oncoming train.

I wasn't 100% sure how the sprung Bissell truck would work in a lighter plastic model, so good to know it still works. Baldry's Rule probably helps.

What colour did you finally choose. The video has screwed around so much with the contrast and saturation it's difficult to tell.

Graeme

[philipy]

The truck works fine, Graeme. In this pic the pivot is towards the LH side - black nut on the screw under the front edge of the open bottom firebox/ashpan. The two long screws either side of the pivot are the charging connectors. The brass nut on the spring does need just a tweak to loosen it a little and allow the truck to drop a mm or so, but I'll do that when it has all the bits and pieces in place.

IMG_1045a.jpg (472.93 KiB) Viewed 35651 times

The loco weighs in at 912g at the mo, so probably just about 1Kg all up in due course. It has a roll of lead flashing in the smoke box end of the boiler and the battery pack fits in the space between that and the front of the firebox. That shifts the cg to just in front of the rear driver and there is room for more weight at the front if necessary. The Rx sits in the saddle tank, on top of the weights.

The colour is the highly scientific "Hycote Double Acrylic Red Primer" with no publicly known colour reference, but it looks about right to my eyes! I did consider dropping Hycote an email to ask if they could give me a colour ref, but couldn't be bothered in the end since there is no prototype definition to compare it with anyway.

[GTB]

The colour is the highly scientific "Hycote Double Acrylic Red Primer" with no publicly known colour reference, but it looks about right to my eyes!

Neat design work. You've been practicing.............

The red looks a nicer shade than the way it was rendered in the movie. The best colour to use is always the one that looks right to you.

I'd be surprised if any primer was matched to a colour standard like BS381C. I assume they colour match to their own internal reference card, as various primers I've used over the years seem consistent in colour.

By chance I was looking for something in the Aust paint standard (AS2700) and remembered they have a list of pigments used for each colour. Deep Indian Red is made from five synthetic pigments, they've removed any connection to a hole somewhere in India ..........

Graeme

[Andrew]

Hello!

Just beginning my catch up on other threads - I very much like the look of this, nice work!

Cheers,

Andrew.

[philipy]

It's been a long time since I posted on this project, unfortunately, although I have been making slight progress with small details and painting, plus I've printed and painted the crew. However the small bits haven't been attached yet until the painting and complex lining was done ( there are still some bits of lining to complete on the frames under the cab floor), to make that as easy as possible.

You may have seen that I commented on the use of a Cricut m/c for lining etc on one of Durley's threads a couple of days ago, but to keep this project complete, I'm re-posting it here:

I got the basic Cricut m/c ( Cricut Joy) ages ago, just to try to do my own lining and lettering. It does have some limitations but I'm not sure if the more expensive versions would be any better. The problem I have is that if it has to do multiple cuts, i.e inside and outside of a rectangular shape, and especially with the reverse curved corners of this loco, the registration goes a bit to pot. Trying to cut the vinyl lining for my F & B loco, the narrowest I could get it to usably do is 0.4mm, because it tries to do some at 0 mm and some at 0.5mm, when the registration slips. To do 2 or more colours requires matching cuts and fiddling to get them together accurately, see the drop shadow on "No.2".
This is the loco, so far, and I'm debating whether to put lining on the wheels ( The various components are not yet fixed together):

IMG_0092.jpg (310.78 KiB) Viewed 18354 times

[Paul_in_Ricky]

That lining looks pretty amazing, well done.
A good subject for a separate thread please.

Another rabbit hole to fall into........

[ge_rik]

That lining looks pretty amazing, well done.
A good subject for a separate thread please.

Another rabbit hole to fall into........

Agree with every statement here. I have got a cutter, but only used it for mundane tasks so far. Would love to know how to make better use of it

Rik

[philipy]

Thanks guys.
Your wish is my command...
viewtopic.php?t=15413

[GTB]

This is the loco, so far, and I'm debating whether to put lining on the wheels ( The various components are not yet fixed together):[/i]

The loco has come up nicely, especially now it is lined.

My two bobs worth..... I think it would be worth lining the wheels, provided you can do it without having a nervous breakdown.

However, you've convinced me to stick with a ruling pen for lining. No half-baked proprietary software involved.........

Graeme

[philipy]

Thanks Graeme.

I've had a go at one wheel, and although it isn't perfect it was actually easier to do than I feared and it does look better and more harmonious with the rest of the model, I have to agree. The biggest problem was, of course, getting that thin line round the rim to look something like circular! When the wheel is going round the imperfections are virtually unnoticeable, I think.

IMG_0133.jpg (194.51 KiB) Viewed 17973 times

I did try using a bow pen initially, but although straight lines and simple curves are fine, the double curves at each corner of the main panels are impossible to do decently just once, let alone the 84 that there would be in total!!! Plus it is impossible to get the pen into the tight spaces on the frames between the cylinders and back of the buffer beam and under the cab floor.

John, I tried using the transfer tape because this would be an ideal use for it, keeping everything in the right spacing and circular. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to stick to the "Smart Vinyl" that the Joy uses. I cut it all and weeded out the unwanted stuff and that was fine. The Transfer tape stuck to the backing sheet where it was exposed and then peeled off when pulled, but the actual vinyl itself simply didn't even try to stick to it.
Edited to add: according to the Cricut website it should stick, so I'm wondering if at 0.4mm wide, the surface area is simply to small to allow it to grab.

[Paul_in_Ricky]

That looks really good.

The Transfer tape stuck to the backing sheet where it was exposed and then peeled off when pulled, but the actual vinyl itself simply didn't even try to stick to it.
Edited to add: according to the Cricut website it should stick, so I'm wondering if at 0.4mm wide, the surface area is simply to small to allow it to grab.

I would be tempted to clean the vinyl sheet before cutting with IPA and see if that helped adhesion.

[GTB]

I did try using a bow pen initially, but although straight lines and simple curves are fine, the double curves at each corner of the main panels are impossible to do decently just once, let alone the 84 that there would be in total!!! Plus it is impossible to get the pen into the tight spaces on the frames between the cylinders and back of the buffer beam and under the cab floor.

The wheel lining looks good. It definitely adds to the overall effect.

These florid 19th century paint schemes look nice, but can be difficult to match on a model.

Luckily from my point of view, the vast majority of Aust locos in my modelling period were plain dirty black, which makes lining easy....... The few lined locos around had simple schemes that are fairly easily copied, generally just flat surfaces like cab and tender sides.

I use a brush for corners when lining, but some modellers use templates. I've never tried a template with a ruling pen, but they work well with tubular pens.

Just getting paint into some parts of a model isn't easy, let alone lining. If push came to shove with inaccessible areas on frames, I'd probably draw the lining on some clear waterslide decal film and apply it that way.

I know modellers that can line out a model with masking tape and get lines down to 1/64th (0.4mm). Not for this little black duck.........

Graeme