Thingiverse Bug Boxes

[SimonWood]

I've been printing the Ffestiniog Bug Box drawings posted by Andrew Longman on Thingiverse. I have to say I really love these, they make nice chunky prints that go together well and with wheels buffers and roof files supplied all that's needed besides the prints are 3mm axles. (There are even DXF files if you've got a laser cutter... I don't )

The files include sides for first, third and observation cars. The other parts are common to each model. I have decided that (a) I would like to redraw the sides - there's nothing wrong with those supplied, but since I'm not laser cutting my 'impressionistic' versions will include some alternate details within the print; and (b) I'm adding another coach or two... including a flying bench! In both cases I'll reciprocate the creator's generosity and share back on Thingiverse.

I'm trying not to be too precious about how I finish these. There are members on this forum who can get a high quality finish and quickly. I'm not sure I can do either, but I'm aiming more towards speed - I'd like to have a 3D printed passenger train on the rails sooner rather than later. That said, I haven't even completed one coach yet. This is the furthest I've got, with the common part of most of these - the frame, bench and chassis:

tempImagek6fqU4.gif (137.24 KiB) Viewed 13534 times

The above is a straight print from the Thingiverse files - I've incorporated a lowered bench from the flying bench back into the original for my next one because to my eye it looks a better height. I'm not poring over drawings for these changes - just taking a look at at photos to get a feel for what looks 'right' to me. I know that's not how most people do it, but rule 1 applies!

Screenshot 2021-02-03 at 21.42.31.png (537.9 KiB) Viewed 13534 times

More to follow.

[SimonWood]

In their rough and ready state after a coat or two of primer, my versions of the sides to the first and observation carriages:

Observation:



First



I haven't drawn my version of the Third yet, so that's not even hit the printer, though it's on the to-do list.

What I have done is print some holes in the frame to get an approximation of the porthole carriage (yes, there are the wrong number of panels on the ends for the porthole carriage – but this isn’t the Ffestiniog’s coach you understand, it’s the similar vehicle commissioned from Brown, Marshall & Co. by the Rheilffordd Moel Rhos).

[ge_rik]

Very nice! Makes me wish I was modelling 2' NG. Are the ends bowed?

Rik

[philipy]

Wow, you really are flying with this now, aren't you? Looks like it's taking over your life...where have i heard that before?

[SimonWood]

Very nice! Makes me wish I was modelling 2' NG. Are the ends bowed?

Yes. I'd have no idea how to draw those (yet) which is what's so great about having a Thingiverse model to play with.

Wow, you really are flying with this now, aren't you? Looks like it's taking over your life...where have i heard that before?

For (happy) work reasons I'm not finding a great deal of time/mental energy for it, but that's why this is a good project - substantially just churning out bits someone else has drawn while I get on with other stuff, but (a) the little bits I have drawn have given me a chance to learn Tinkercad and learn how drawn things turn out in real life and (b) pushing to get something finished is giving me a chance to see how the whole process affects the final output. That's why I'm not being too fussy, I know I'll learn as I go and as I learn to do things better I don't want to throw away usable prints, so maybe one side will be better than another. But however imperfect I'll get myself a reasonably robust train out of it and start carrying passengers on the Moel Rhos...

[Trevor Thompson]

Simon

Those coaches look well worth making. They are going to look the part when they are finished. You would have to be a bit of an "expert" to work out what was incorrect on them. How many people would know how many panels or holes that the porthole version actually has?

Particularly bearing in mind that many of the kits for these are no more accurate.

Trevor

[Andrew]

Those look great!

The ornamental cut-outs in the curved panel above the window on the "zoo car" is particularly good - I chickened out when I built mine (in fairness, it was my first scratchbuild...), must revisit it sometime. The "porthole" version looks great too, a very attractive model of a very attractive carriage - I spend far too much time looking at old pictures of ffestiniog carriages, and I wouldn't have noticed the "incorrect" panelling...

I'm so taken with gold primer too - is part of you tempted to leave the in glorious golden livery??! Maybe the Moel Rhos Railway went through a period of rainbow liveries too?!

Cheers,

Andrew

[Peter Butler]

Those look great!

I'm so taken with gold primer too -

They do look good, although I still have concerns about the lines visible on flat panels. The 'gold' primer is possibly Halford's Filler Primer, which is deep yellow in colour, our Local branch is closed so I have found this on-line as an alternative......
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3x-Hycote-XU ... 3331680019

I know from experience it does what it says on the tin, so helping to disguise those annoying striations.

[Andrew]

The 'gold' primer is possibly Halford's Filler Primer,

That was my assumption too - I purchased some on your recommendation Peter, and it's wonderful stuff!

Andrew.

[SimonWood]

Those coaches look well worth making. They are going to look the part when they are finished. You would have to be a bit of an "expert" to work out what was incorrect on them. How many people would know how many panels or holes that the porthole version actually has?

Thanks Trevor! I know there will be some who have an encyclopaedic knowledge and a photographic memory and the middle porthole should align with a panel rather than between... but despite staring extensively at photographs I only spotted the difference when I started drawing it, and I expect most people will recognise what it's supposed to be whether or not they identify any anomalies!

Those look great!

The ornamental cut-outs in the curved panel above the window on the "zoo car" is particularly good - I chickened out when I built mine (in fairness, it was my first scratchbuild...), must revisit it sometime.

Thanks... the ornamental cut outs were a good chance both to fiddle with compounding shapes in Tinkercad and identifying how small you can go with a detail before it disappears in the print.

The "porthole" version looks great too, a very attractive model of a very attractive carriage - I spend far too much time looking at old pictures of ffestiniog carriages, and I wouldn't have noticed the "incorrect" panelling...

Glad you didn't notice, if you didn't spot it then I don't think there are many who will!

I'm so taken with gold primer too - is part of you tempted to leave the in glorious golden livery??! Maybe the Moel Rhos Railway went through a period of rainbow liveries too?!

It's a temptation I think I will resist, or I'll have to wear shades when I'm running them. Not sure what the livery will be yet. Possibly GWR brown and cream...

They do look good, although I still have concerns about the lines visible on flat panels. The 'gold' primer is possibly Halford's Filler Primer, which is deep yellow in colour, our Local branch is closed so I have found this on-line as an alternative......
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3x-Hycote-XU ... 3331680019

Thanks! No, it is actually the Hycote primer itself, the very one you're linking to. It must be a very similar shade to the Halfords (which I haven't had the chance to try)?

[philipy]

Thanks! No, it is actually the Hycote primer itself, the very one you're linking to. It must be a very similar shade to the Halfords (which I haven't had the chance to try)?

I've only used the Halfords yellow Filler Primer once but I used it as a top coat for the "Warning Yellow" body on my track sweeper. I put a satin varnish over the top but over the years it has faded down to a more brownish shade than the golden yellow it started off as.

[Trevor Thompson]

Simon

I am interested in the orientation you are using to print these and the impact on surface finish. I am particularly thinking about Peter's concern. So its not about criticism but about getting the best out of our machinery.

We know that the finished items can be as good as coaches made by traditional means - you have only to go back to the photos I posted on the "3d printing 16mm models" thread of the finished Ashbury 4 wheel coach. I have the models in front of me and I am convinced that any imperfections are not to do with them being printed.

So looking at the bodies you printed - the ends don't show any layers as far as I can see. Of course they were printed with the floor of the coach on the bed and therefor the end was upright. The ends look to me as though they will look very good after a few coats of paint. We know that things printed like that can have a good surface - the curved water tank on Welsh Pony has a very good finish - no visible layering. It was printed on the standard quality setting.

The sides do look to have some imperfections. I'm not thinking about layering being visible in the flat panels but the framework higher up. At what would be eye level for a scale figure seated in the coach. The print head seems to have lost its zero level for a few passes and then found it again higher up the side of the coach. It has left a number of layers looking like they have a dent in them in each pillar and door frame. So I wonder which way around this was printed? Was the bottom of the side on the bed and the object printed upright? I usually print my coach sides with the inside of the side flat on the bed. That results in some marks in the panels but basically a side which can be made pretty perfect without any sanding.

The flying bench looks very good. The planks have been nicely defined, and I particularly like the covers for the wheelboxes. that looks just right. The surface marks in this model will become less noticeable as they are painted. I think that one can look as perfect as you want it to look!

So it is really only the sides where I can see what Peter is thinking about. I wonder if there might be an advantage to printing the sides at an angle. Say upright and twisted say 20 degrees so that the back of the coach gets all of the supports?

As a train it is going to look good - whatever livery you choose.

Trevor

[philipy]

I've been wondering about that imperfection on the sides as well. It appears to be at the same height from the floor on all three vehicles, so I assumed that they were printed vertically? Why the same defect should appear on three separate stls/g codes is puzzling.

[SimonWood]

The sides do look to have some imperfections. I'm not thinking about layering being visible in the flat panels but the framework higher up. At what would be eye level for a scale figure seated in the coach. The print head seems to have lost its zero level for a few passes and then found it again higher up the side of the coach.

I've been wondering about that imperfection on the sides as well. It appears to be at the same height from the floor on all three vehicles, so I assumed that they were printed vertically? Why the same defect should appear on three separate stls/g codes is puzzling.

So can I just check that we are looking at the same imperfections! (There are some imperfections that are visible to the naked eye that I'm fairly sure aren't visible in the photos - though equally the photos highlight imperfections that aren't visible from a few feet away!) And that they aren't the printed hole for the brass rod - shown here also as a potentially useful reference point? i.e. Are we talking higher or lower?

tempImagezr23ZI.gif (55.08 KiB) Viewed 13412 times

The first class side is a different matter - there is an imperfection slightly higher than where the rod is on the zoo car/porthole box...because I have printed all of these without supports, instead cutting them and printing them in two (vertical) halves... and I can see I've made a horrible job gluing that 'first' side (damn superglue!) - I've just broken it and reglued it, I think it looks somewhat better.

When it comes to the third class I will experiment with printing both this way and in one piece with supports and see which causes the most problems!

[philipy]

So can I just check that we are looking at the same imperfections!

These are what I was refering to.

IMG_9136.jpg (41.11 KiB) Viewed 13402 times

and I can see I've made a horrible job gluing that 'first' side (damn superglue!) -

Why do you use superglue? I wouldn't let it within a mile of something like this. Both PLA and ABS stick beautifully with PlasticWeld ( Dichloromethane) and I think Trevor uses Acetone. Both of which can be applied with a brush exactly where you want it without messing about and takeno more than a minute or two to be handleable.

[Trevor Thompson]

Simon

That explains it!

Printed in two parts and glued together. Its the joint I could see.

I agree with the comments about superglue - it ALWAYS lets go - sooner or later, probably at the most inconvenient moment.

As you know I am not concerned about the minor surface imperfections. I learnt a lot when painting old cars. The trick is to apply as thick a layer as you can without it running. Too thin a layer and it never covers anything. You always think it is going to be far too thick but it contracts when it dries - what you are applying is mainly solvent which evaporates off leaving little of what you applied on the surface.

Trevor

[TonyW]

I agree with the comments about superglue - it ALWAYS lets go - sooner or later, probably at the most inconvenient moment.

Best thing to do is bear in mind it is neither super or glue, then you won't go far wrong.

It is now a shadow of the product it was when first launched about 50 years ago.

[SimonWood]

These are what I was refering to.

The annotations make it clear! Yes - we're looking at the hole for the brass rod in the first and last pics, and the poorly glued join in the middle.

Why do you use superglue? I wouldn't let it within a mile of something like this. Both PLA and ABS stick beautifully with PlasticWeld ( Dichloromethane) and I think Trevor uses Acetone. Both of which can be applied with a brush exactly where you want it without messing about and takeno more than a minute or two to be handleable.

Because I'm a masochist! I looked at using dichloromethane, you can get big bottles of the stuff, and was scared off by just how carcinogenic it appears to be. Yet PlasticWeld looks fairly innocuous. Are we talking about this stuff? If it works on PLA I'm ready to give it a go.

I've used Liquid Poly on ABS. Trevor is using acetone on ABS. It's much easier to get a strong accurate join than superglue. But... It doesn't work on PLA.

I agree with the comments about superglue - it ALWAYS lets go - sooner or later, probably at the most inconvenient moment.

I agree too! It's the main reason I'm looking forward to the weather warming up and switching to ABS!

Best thing to do is bear in mind it is neither super or glue, then you won't go far wrong.

Amen.

As you know I am not concerned about the minor surface imperfections.

Not all of the surface imperfections are equal. There is a distinct line half way up the lower panels that you can see on the porthole side here, and it's also on the First side I haven't photographed. It's puzzling me a bit... it's clearly not in the STL/gcode yet it's happened twice in the same place... but hopefully it'll be fairly imperceptible under the paint and from a few feet away.

[Trevor Thompson]

Simon

Yes that is the stuff.

Trevor

[philipy]

Simon

Yes that is the stuff.

Trevor

Yes, agreed and it is available in 250ml cans direct from EMA.