Fumes/gassing from superglue

[pandsrowe]

I have just come across a problem that I have never experienced before, blooming or clouding on paint and glazing plastic after using superglue. In the photo which shows an upside down coach body which I am making into a grounded body type diorama. I tack glued the corrugated plastic roofing to one edge of the wooden coach side and left it overnight to cure. This morning I find this curious white clouding has appeared on the painted surface and also in places on the plastic window glazing.
It will wipe off with a cloth but not completely, fortunately I am not too concerned as the coach requires to be weathered to look the part of an ancient grounded body looking a bit tatty in the loco yard.
Has anybody else here ever experienced anything like this or does anyone know what is the likely cause?

[-steves-]

Yup, all the time, dodgey ol stuff



.

[GTB]

I have just come across a problem that I have never experienced before, blooming or clouding on paint and glazing plastic after using superglue.

Cyanoacrylate adhesives (superglues) can give off vapour until they are fully cured. If the area isn't well ventilated the vapour can build up enough to cure on areas with surface contaminants like fingerprints.

The white powdery film is cured superglue, so can be removed by the usual solvents, although there is the risk of attacking paint, plastics etc.

You usually see this if you pack things away in a box, or other container when you finish up work for the night.

The reaction is well documented and is used in police work as a method of visualising fingerprints. The areas on your model that turned white were probably the ones where you held the parts most often while working on them.

Using superglue to fix the windows in a coach body, then fixing the roof on with superglue as well, is pretty much a guarantee of finding the windows fogged the next day.........

It won't affect later painting, so isn't much of an issue during assembly, but is a real pain if you use superglue to repair a finished model. You can probably polish it off the clear windows with Brasso, or similar metal polish, but I guess the windows in a grounded body won't be that clean and most would be painted over anyway.

Regards,
Graeme

[TonyW]

In my experience it is not super and barely qualifies as glue.

[LNR]

I'd second Tony's comment, handy, but poor as a glue for outside, and definitely not shock proof at all.
Grant.

[MDLR]

I'd second Tony's comment, handy, but poor as a glue for outside, and definitely not shock proof at all.
Grant.

I remember a goods van on a layout at the LLanberis show which was dropped onto the floor, which instantly converted it back to the kit it was built from! I use it for adding detail, and also for holding pieces together whilst the epoxy goes off.

[tuppenced]

In my experience it is not super and barely qualifies as glue.

Not all "superglues" are equal, Tony! What you say applied to the little Quick Fix tubes one buys in shops.

People will have their own favourite brands, and within each industrial brand there are several variants for different duties.

My personal recommendation is O ring cement from my local bearing shop. It has to be flexible and to resist heat, pressure and some (if not all) solvents to be saleable for creating custom O rings.

I once used it to repair a shattered nylon lever that was part of a mixer shower - an application involving a normally un-glueable material, high mechanical load, sustained moisture and quite high temperature - a combination that would have been beyond the capability of a conventional epoxy.

David 1/2d

[-steves-]

Indeed, not all super glues are equal. I use cyno from model shops together with a kicker and you will not break the joint, the wood yes, but not the joint, used it to build many many model planes and it was never the glue that gave out, always the wood when they eventually did hit the deck. Its also important you get a good join with superglue, its not much good at gap filling unless you use a think one with a kicker, then its pretty awesome there too.



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[TonyW]

Not all "superglues" are equal, Tony! What you say applied to the little Quick Fix tubes one buys in shops.

You may well be correct, and I remember it being much better than it is now when it first appeared. When was that? Late 1960s...? Anyway, when used it gave off visible fumes and a lot of heat and would always make a good joint. Something has happened since then and it is certainly not the stuff it once was.

There are many delights of living in North Wales but one thing we don't have is big shops. My nearest B&Q is 25 miles away so I don't trouble them often. The excellent Porthmadog Model Shop stocks superglue in small bottles. The only choice available is take it or leave it.

Too many bad experiences with the stuff deter me from investigating mail-order supplies of something I don't actually like to use!

[pandsrowe]

Thanks for all the replies and advice, I have used various types of super glue in the past with generally good results. Thinking about it I suppose the difference here is the painted finish, as with previous use would have been during construction. I will know better next time and plan assembly to take this into account.

[James from Devon]

This has suddenly happened to me as well. I do tend to use epoxy where possible but where I do use SG, I have been using the same brand for some time (Gorilla Glue) all of a sudden I got the white coating on some coaches where I had used it to add detail. It came off with a little thinners and then I went over the bodywork with Mr Muscle glass cleaner which seemed to do the trick.

[pandsrowe]

Update on the superglue problem - after all the issues of the discolouration to the paint I find that the superglue didn't adhere to the plastic corrugated sheeting, it had all the adhesive qualities of wallpaper paste! I have tried epoxy adhesives on this corrugated in the past and had problems getting the glue into all the peaks and troughs of the sheet.
This time I have tried using an external construction adhesive and I applied it with a disposable syringe, can't use the normal nozzle on the cartridge as it applies far too much using a frame gun. It would appear that the adhesive bond is more than satisfactory, in other words I can't peel the corrugated plastic away from the ply of the carriage sides. Anyway time will tell how effective it is and here is a shot of the coach in situ on the railway.

[markoteal]

Brilliant finished model (and it appears Gordon the guard from my line has popped over for a look) -hope he wasn't rostered today!

[Enginehouse]

Not all "superglues" are equal, Tony! What you say applied to the little Quick Fix tubes one buys in shops.

You may well be correct, and I remember it being much better than it is now when it first appeared. When was that? Late 1960s...? Anyway, when used it gave off visible fumes and a lot of heat and would always make a good joint. Something has happened since then and it is certainly not the stuff it once was.
[/pquote]

Modern domestic type Superglue is so much safer to use now than it was in the good old days. Practically useless, but so much safer. It cannot be compared to the cryo that we used in the 60/70s. Having said that, a local very well known model boat builder back in the day, rushing to finish a prototype before a major exhibition decided to apply heat to a sizeable superglue joint to assist rapid drying. He was working in a small workshop (enclosed space). Passed out from the fumes, ended up in hospital and in the process lost several days while unconscious. Probably learned a valuable lesson in the process. Modern superglue is probably as effective as modern creosote substitutes. However commercial grade superglue of the correct thickness used with the correct accelerator and/or bonding agent has its uses. As does the release agent without which it should never be used.

[ikcdab]

For fixing glazing I always use canopy glue. Sticks clear plastic like a dream and dries completely clear. It's designed for sticking model aircraft glass canopies.