First time steamer

Peter Butler · Post by **Peter Butler** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:24 pm

I'm delighted to say that my eldest my son has seen the opportunity to join me in sharing the use of the garden railway and is keen to purchase a steam loco. My question is simple..... for a first timer with cash to spend, what is in, and what is out?
We will be at Llanfair and will certainly be looking at a buying a new loco suitable for running on the BURPS with large radius curves and plenty of level track to play with. He is keen to go with RC from the start. Your suggestions will be greatly appreciated!

MDLR · Post by **MDLR** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:41 pm

I would have suggested a Roundhouse Basic loco, but if he wants to go R/C, one of the smaller Accucrafts might be better.

Big Al · Post by **Big Al** » Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:53 pm

I started with a R/C Silver Lady and love it.

Peter Butler · Post by **Peter Butler** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:06 am

Thanks to you both for your response. One vote for Accucraft and one for Roundhouse.... are there any problems obtaining spares etc. fo Accucraft as they are not made here in UK?

steamie1 · Post by **steamie1** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:13 am

Go for the most you can afford. See if you went MSS then for 100 pounds more you could have a Mk2 which is well worth the extra. In a similar vain, a Ragleth is so much more capable than a Mk2 and so it goes on and on. Our first locos were Accucraft and new. They were, and still are, cracking locos. Heavy and strong.

Later I brought a Roundhouse Tom Rolt which is delicate and fine. Then a Charles which a tad stronger(but not quite as strong as Ragleth) and like all Roundhouse locos smoother in running. But we are splitting hairs.

IT MUST BE DUAL GAUGE as a garden steam up could throw in 45mm track, keeps you flexible to steam anywhere. IT MUST BE THE BEST YOU CAN AFFORD as you will end up replacing the cheepy which costs more in the long run. BUY NEW as you have a good starting point and a warranty to keep you steaming. When you have experience then go for second hand.

I would recommend Accucraft or Roundhouse. Note; with the Roundhouse basic series you don't get forward and reverse lever and can't later on fit it, the slip eccentric is set the direction it is started.

The two makes are just different. I can often get a Roundhouse to go slower as they tend to be smoother running. Accucraft are made with thicker materials which make them strong with good bearings but the gas burners are noisy and take a short while to learn how to set right. My Ragleth can take more bumps and is outlasting the others with regard to wear. RUN IT LIGHT WITH PLENTY OF OILING FOR A WHILE THEN SLOWLY INTRODUCE IT TO MORE AND MORE LOAD. Running it in pays off. My locos seem to run the sweetest no matter what the make and it is all in the running in.

As for R/c or not well are you shunting and playing trains or are you just watching them go by?

For the former R/C, with the later there is pros and cons. Pros, you can control a satisfying scale speed run with R/C. BUT, you have to remember to charge it up.(sometimes someone comes round and catches you out) You have to be holding the TX most of the time and there is less skill required for a slow run. At first I liked R/C now I like the fun in seeing if I can set a slow run up with manual control.
Can't advise too much on this aspect just think what you want to do and what you like to see. By the way ENELOOP batteries help the charging hassle but are dear.

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:28 am

What fun! I reckon Roundhouse too if the money's there, probably one of the Classic range for full "hands off" control. Good looking and contollable locos that run well out of the box, plus you get the benefit of RH's legendary after-sales support...

Happy shopping!

Peter Butler · Post by **Peter Butler** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:33 am

Brilliant info Steami1, I was unsure about Accucraft having no experience, but that's good news. I can say he will be looking towards top of the range models, possibly Charles or Countess (or equivalent) and I'm hoping there may be show offers at Llanfair?
The 'running in' is also new to me and I can see there would be advantages from it, however, trying to explain that to an eager first timer will be difficult.

steamie1 · Post by **steamie1** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:39 am

Countess won't take a Peco 605 set curve by the way the wheel base is too long. On longevity my walcherts valve gear (not slip eccentric) is wearing slightly faster. Going back to Accucraft note several Edrigs were converted to coal firing and hold up to this abrasive running.

So glad you have enough to buy new. Handle the locos and ask lots of questions. Savour the moment, its not often we buy a loco.

ENJOY THE SHOW, GOOD LUCK!

Peter Butler · Post by **Peter Butler** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:45 am

Non of my track has set curves, it is all laid with plain track and follows a gentle radius made by laying a lath of timber from a fixed pivot point and following the arc. The radius is about 5.5 ft.
I've measured the radius on my return loop and made an alteration to the figure above. It is larger than I remembered.

steamie1 · Post by **steamie1** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:52 am

Just thinking of going to steam ups beyond. I wish my track was like yours! I plan to extend. Hey! do post shots of the loco on this thread.

Peter Butler · Post by **Peter Butler** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:01 am

Yes, I will follow up after the purchase to keep you all informed. Meanwhile, thanks again for your input.

Peter Butler · Post by **Peter Butler** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:02 am

Can't clear duplicated message so this is to ask how?

steamie1 · Post by **steamie1** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:25 am

A good tip! with running the loco. Tag said to me "It's not the oil we put on a loco, it's the oil we wipe off that matters. Use liberally but it wipe off"
Oil the moving parts with the loco up turned over with ordinary car oil (steam oil can be too thick but is ok if you don't have car oil to hand) put it in a syringe for ease of use. Oil motion each running session. I use a sharp modelling knife to ease part the spacing washers on the motion rods and put on a drop of oil in, allowing it to flow into the pivot point or axle. Do this to everything that moves. Do it with no gas in the tank. Then after gently rocking the motion back and forth to allow the oil to really get in, wipe off the excess. Failure to do this allows grit and dust to stick to the locos excess oil which later acts as a grinding paste.

If ever you run in snow or wet rain, oil motion every gas tank fill.

So we don't forget anything ever, remember the basic running acronym GOW! Gas, Oil, Water.

If you forget oil you will hear a squeak squeak squeak noise if you ever hear this, stop straight away. Don't ever run out of water in the boiler. If you ever did, allow it to cool before adding any water. Don't add water to a very hot boiler when it has run dry it could crack a joint. Allow the loco to cool off. New locos can use more water so keep a special eye out with a new loco. On new locos, Tom Rolt did not have lock tight on some of his Walsherts valve gear and let a rod go on the first run. Keep a close eye on the first couple of runs. I was creeping round checking and caught it straight away put it all back with lock tight and all was well. I must add this is rare though so don't get over briefed. On that note I'll sign off and shut up. Cheers!

MDLR · Post by **MDLR** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:19 pm

steamie1:103507 wrote: Oil the moving parts with the loco up turned over with ordinary car oil (steam oil can be too thick but is OK if you don't have car oil to hand) put it in a syringe for ease of use.

I use Singer sewing machine oil cans coz they don't fall over on my tool box - put "Singer oil can" into eBay............... I have two different ones for motion and steam oil.

JMORG · Post by **JMORG** » Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:32 pm

Roundhouse Basic models are on of the best places to start (Millie especially as it's open cab for ease of fingers!)
Or if you want R/C then go for something like a Billy, Katie or a Ragleth, they're easy to run and you can easily pull them apart for maintenance or modding!
I've got a Katie that has run continuously for 15 years now! It's been modified with a scratch-built tender and fitted with home made running boards, along with other "bitz n' pieces", it's only now that it may need replacement seals ect.
Lady Anne is obviously the best of the lot, but you'll be parting with a bit more money...

btiratsoo · Post by **btiratsoo** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:49 am

Hello Peter

My father and I have just done exactly the same as you and your son are planning. We (I) have yet to start building the railway (again as my first attempt went horribly wrong).

After much deliberation, and spending almost 5 hours in GRS in Princes Risborough, we came away with a Roundhouse Mildred R/C. She has yet to be steamed properly but on a test run on 5 lengths of sm32 laid out on the patio she ran beautifully! Very simple and very easy to use.

I can't say she was cheap, but we found it was in the right price range for us without destroying the bank balance and had a bit more to her than the basic series. I am now considering a basic series as one for myself but am also considering building a coal fired Lady Anne as the engineering aspect is really what has drawn me into this scale.

I'm sorry I can't offer much more than the fact I have run back and forth a few times light engine. I can tell you that the operation was very straight forward and she moved beautifully once a good head of steam was built up.

I have just bought myself a Roundhouse Little John as I simply love the look of it. Bright yellow with striped buffer beams.

Good luck on your search and take in all of Steamie's advice. It is very sound.

Ben

steamie1 · Post by **steamie1** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:16 am

A battery loco is a useful thing. I used mine to help build the line and something to quickly play with when all is not finished. We could quickly see track errors by the way the stock tilted whilst in motion.

Now, we always run the battery loco to check if the line is ok. Stones, twigs and leaves can be moved by birds to catch one out. A derailment with a low cost battery loco is no issue. So as a clearing check the battery loco goes out before we steam.

Another small reason to have one is that should any casual visitor 'who is not into trains' come to see our railway, we can quickly pop on the a battery loco, so at least something of interest is moving.

MDLR · Post by **MDLR** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:37 am

Your Mildred will serve you well. Now you can start looking for bolt-on goodies to personalise your loco. Take a look at: http://www.locoworks.co.uk/locoworks-de ... se-mildred for example and you might also want one or two of these: http://www.mdlr.co.uk/toolbox.html............

tom_tom_go · Post by **tom_tom_go** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:28 pm

No one ever mentions Regner when these questions are asked...

A geared loco on a line with tights curves is a pleasure to run and watch slowly plodding around.

DickH · Post by **DickH** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:57 pm

Hi Peter,

I will bring "Katie" & "Silver Lady" with me to see you Monday - he can have a go at both - for me Roundhouse has the edge over Accucraft for both reliability and longevity and as you know both of mine are R/C. We can also talk Llanfair as I will almost certainly be going too!!

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