You're in luck - I remembered that I wrote something up in October (I've got nearly every single email I've ever sent since c.1993 somewhere) - so here's the text: sorry for the delay.
On 9 October 2013 01:31, Marquis DeCarabas wrote:
> On 8 October 2013 19:27, Dan wrote:
>> Hi Sean,
>>
>> Do you mean one of these fellows:
>>
http://www.festipedia.org.uk/wiki/Van_6? Or is it one of the "Sentry
>> Box" vans:
http://trains.laurell.nu/kits/jurassic16-01.html?
>>
>> If the former, then I think the brick/oxide red shown on the
>> Festipedia page is about right. I'm not sure what the livery of the
>> Sentry Box vans was - perhaps his excellency the MdeC can help with
>> that. The folks on the 7/8ths. forum suggest a " Lancashire &
>> Yorkshire Purple-Brown" which apparently is the Boston Lodge approved
>> colour:
http://www.7-8ths.info/index.php?topic=16684414.0
>>
>
> <escapes from Grimpen Mire>
>
> Pending some insight into the decision processes at the Lodge apart
> from "it's going to be p-b because the CRV is p-b" the first thing to
> say is that whatever colour it is, it wasn't glossy as portrayed in
> the 7/8th picture.
>
> Let's look at the available pictures online:
>
http://www.festipedia.org.uk/w/images/e/e3/Wp1871.jpg
>
http://www.festipedia.org.uk/w/images/3 ... er1871.jpg
>
http://www.festipedia.org.uk/w/images/4 ... th5118.jpg
>
> Of these, it is quite clear to me that it was a flat finish - the LW
> picture isn't brilliant, but the leading Ashbury is in the
> purple-brown.
>
> There are a couple of other pictures around, one especially from
> Clogwyn Daniel, looking down over the later route. This gives a very
> good shot of the sentry end and it is in full sun. This picture is
> quite interesting, as there is a very clear colour differential
> between the glazed end of the sentry box and the inset end of the
> balcony. The metal stanchions of the verandah rail are clearly visible
> against the sentry box and these are almost certainly black. The inset
> end of the the van is a much darker grey than the sentry box. This is
> hinted at in the picture of Eric and the Princess at Duffws - you
> can't make the decision based on the line of the sun because it may
> just be in shadow - however, some renditions of this picture do give a
> whiff of the riser for the step in the balcony being visible to the
> immediate right of the Engine side verandah stanchion - they /may/ be
> a .jpg artifact.
>
> With that in mind, have a shuftie at these two pictures (use the
> magnifying glass too):
>
> Below Clogwyn Daniel:
>
http://tinyurl.com/oklgbm6
>
> Princess at Duffws, 1871
>
http://tinyurl.com/pk63vbo
> (use the zoom on this one, fer sure)
>
> There is one more picture, taken at Creuau which doesn't give a lot more.
>
> Now, this is all a bit subjective, but by comparision within the
> pictures, I would say that at Clogwyn Daniel the sun is shining
> directly across the end of the vehicle and the inset end most closely
> matches the bottom curved ends of the England. In the Duffws picture
> you can make out the bar that closes off the verandah and when you
> zoom you can just distinguish a lighter patch on the top of the most
> Engine-ward [1] panel, likewise you can see a similar lightening on
> the end of the first class bugbox.
>
> I suggest that both these lightenings on the ends are actually
> reflections. That isn't too hard to believe, especially in the case of
> the first class bugbox which we know was a glossy purple lake with
> cream fake ventilators which is really clear in the picture of Welsh
> Po at Port. Note in that picture
> (
http://www.festipedia.org.uk/w/images/e/e3/Wp1871.jpg) you can just
> about make out a horizontal on the guards van running from Engine to
> Clock [1] side: I think that is the reflection in the Bottom Engine
> panel on the first class bugbox.
>
> With me so far? OK, let's go back to the van, let's look at the top of
> the Bottom Engine panel in zoom. I''m pretty sure that you can make
> out the shoulder of the guard reflected there. So that inset bit is
> almost certainly glossy. What of the rest of the van - well, if push
> came to shove, I'd say that the van was flat. All the other
> contemporary pictures give some hints of there being a 'depth' to the
> colour on the other vehicles - I think that comes from varnish. I
> can't see the same sort of 'depth', IYGWIM, on the van sides and the
> sentry box.
>
> Bearing in mind that these vehicles were intended to be the leading
> vehicle of down trains, I'm tempted to suggest that the ends were red
> - I've go no basis for that other than a hunch. The sides look to be
> lighter than the ends and lighter than the lake of the first class
> bugbox - I wonder if somewhere in between the proposed lake and the
> TR's carriage brown would be suitable, something close to BS381c 411.
> It might just be me but the lake looks too dark on the model, and I
> can't consciously remember reading that the sentry box was added after
> building, though that might explain the difference in colour.
>
> Remember that the vans were (I think) locally constructed using
> ironwork from Brown Marshalls, so the paint finish wouldn't
> necessarily be anything special. I think it is darker than the Type 1
> and Type 2 Quarrymens.
>
> I think you can make out that where you can see lettering, the Duffws
> picture is No 1 van and the Port picture is No 2 van. Which reminds me
> - I've now got a scale drawing of the original passenger layout at
> Port (pre-1879) and the angles are such that comparing it to the Welsh
> Po picture the dark end is not entirely due to the shadow - it is
> possible that the Top end was also painted differently to the sides. I
> suspect that below the brace that runs the width of the van was black
> and above that was body colour.
>
> [1] I'm guessing you know about Top, Bottom [Strange, Charm]; Clock
> and Engine and their significance to the Noggerbahn?