Live steam...Maybe one day !
Live steam...Maybe one day !
Hello!
I'm an absolute beginner in steam locos.
I hope to make a good start in steam with a Mamod MkII 1 G (I built my layout with the Piko 45mm track). This steam loco seems very easy to use and I don't have a lot of money to spend.
So do you have any advices before I'll do (or not) the biggest error of my life?
Thanks for your help!
I'm an absolute beginner in steam locos.
I hope to make a good start in steam with a Mamod MkII 1 G (I built my layout with the Piko 45mm track). This steam loco seems very easy to use and I don't have a lot of money to spend.
So do you have any advices before I'll do (or not) the biggest error of my life?
Thanks for your help!
Last edited by Bandit on Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- mikewakefielduk@btinterne
- Fireman
- Posts: 309
- Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:43 pm
- Location: Shropshire
A lot will depend on your circuit. Is it flat with gentle curves or with tight curves, numerous points, changes in direction, etc? The Mamods are a pleasing loco to use and, as you will have realised from this sub-group, not too expensive to buy and pretty simple to adapt. However they do have a bit of a reputation for not being the easiest to run slowly so need careful control of the gas flow and steam regulator adjustment. I haven't experienced this as my circuit has both tight curves and a gradient so I fitted radio control out of necessity otherwise a single regulator adjustment meant it either ran away on the downhill or couldn't climb the uphill.
If you don't have radio control and your circuit is flat with gentle curves, you may find the loco's speed is quite hard to control unless you give it a reasonable load to pull (which it will as its quite powerful).
Mike
If you don't have radio control and your circuit is flat with gentle curves, you may find the loco's speed is quite hard to control unless you give it a reasonable load to pull (which it will as its quite powerful).
Mike
Last edited by mikewakefielduk@btinterne on Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Dannypenguin
- Trainee Driver
- Posts: 632
- Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:57 am
- Location: Forest of Dean, UK
- Contact:
I don't mean to throw a spanner in the works, but I saved up an extra few hundred quid and bought a Roundhouse Bertie instead of a Mamod due to a friend reccomendation. It beats loco's three times as expensive hands down on smoothness and running time. Its more expensive I know but they are excellent and I'm sure if you paid the extra you won't be dissapointed!
I'm not saying dis-count getting a Mamod, just take a look at the competition before putting down your cash!
I'm not saying dis-count getting a Mamod, just take a look at the competition before putting down your cash!
Dan
Visit the PFLR website - http://poultonfarmlightrailway.webs.com/
Dean Forest Railway Society website - http://dfrsociety.org/
Visit the PFLR website - http://poultonfarmlightrailway.webs.com/
Dean Forest Railway Society website - http://dfrsociety.org/
- Chris Cairns
- Driver
- Posts: 2366
- Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:25 pm
- Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Chris,
I'll try to answer your specific Mamod question. Firstly if you have not watched them then have a look at my Mark I & Mark II videos for a walk round these locos - http://youtu.be/imZwlU3KzXU & http://youtu.be/aTH7_uuTiuc
Pros - The Mark II is currently the cheapest gas fired locomotive available, with an in cab regulator, lubricator, silver soldered boiler, 40PSI safety valve, and decent wheel flanges to cope with a variety of track types. It also runs straight out of the box provided you read the instructions properly. Latest model should come fitted with an extra boiler insert & blanking plug. Provided you do not modify it it is covered by a factory warranty. Slow running can be achieved but normally requires a reasonable load of wagons attached.
Cons - The lubricator is a total displacement type so using too much oil ends up with it be expelled out the very short exhaust pipe onto the smoke box apron under the front of the boiler, which can then contaminate the ceramic material of the burner. It is a riveted construction which would need to be drilled out for any bodywork modifications. It is not true 16mm scale and is somewhat out of proportion (cab is too small in height). Fitted with a toy hook coupling which only really works with other Mamod/MSS rolling stock (too low for a 3 link chain from a centre buffer coupling). Does not have a good 2nd hand market (you lose a lot of its value which previous owners have offset by writing articles for Garden Rail magazine!). As Mike has previously posted above being an oscillating loco it is best to be run on a near level layout.
Apart from the tender I would not recommend any of the other current Mamod rolling stock items, too toy like, lacking in detail and priced too high, although they are dual guage.
Chris Cairns.
I'll try to answer your specific Mamod question. Firstly if you have not watched them then have a look at my Mark I & Mark II videos for a walk round these locos - http://youtu.be/imZwlU3KzXU & http://youtu.be/aTH7_uuTiuc
Pros - The Mark II is currently the cheapest gas fired locomotive available, with an in cab regulator, lubricator, silver soldered boiler, 40PSI safety valve, and decent wheel flanges to cope with a variety of track types. It also runs straight out of the box provided you read the instructions properly. Latest model should come fitted with an extra boiler insert & blanking plug. Provided you do not modify it it is covered by a factory warranty. Slow running can be achieved but normally requires a reasonable load of wagons attached.
Cons - The lubricator is a total displacement type so using too much oil ends up with it be expelled out the very short exhaust pipe onto the smoke box apron under the front of the boiler, which can then contaminate the ceramic material of the burner. It is a riveted construction which would need to be drilled out for any bodywork modifications. It is not true 16mm scale and is somewhat out of proportion (cab is too small in height). Fitted with a toy hook coupling which only really works with other Mamod/MSS rolling stock (too low for a 3 link chain from a centre buffer coupling). Does not have a good 2nd hand market (you lose a lot of its value which previous owners have offset by writing articles for Garden Rail magazine!). As Mike has previously posted above being an oscillating loco it is best to be run on a near level layout.
Apart from the tender I would not recommend any of the other current Mamod rolling stock items, too toy like, lacking in detail and priced too high, although they are dual guage.
Chris Cairns.
- mikewakefielduk@btinterne
- Fireman
- Posts: 309
- Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:43 pm
- Location: Shropshire
I would add that the Mamod has a reverser at the front (in common with many oscillators - a Regner Lumberjack has the same) so it is possible to fashion a radio controlled forward/reverse, although its not easy. I certainly haven't done it. A Bertie in comparison has a slip eccentric reverse which means you have to move the loco by hand to change its direction of travel. (One "feature" of a slip eccentric is, if the loco stops on a gradient and rolls backwards, it could go into reverse, which can be a problem.)
Mike
Mike
- andymctractor
- Trainee Driver
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- Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:03 am
- Location: Suffolk, UK
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I'm not a Mamod owner and never have been but I appreciate why some people take to them.
My best advice to anyone is for their first steam loco to be a Roundhouse.
I didn't listen to that advice when I started but now I own a Roundhouse Katie I know where that advice was coming from.
Good luck.
My best advice to anyone is for their first steam loco to be a Roundhouse.
I didn't listen to that advice when I started but now I own a Roundhouse Katie I know where that advice was coming from.
Good luck.
Regards
Andy McMahon
If it moves, salute it. If it doesn't move, paint it. (RN sailors basic skills course 1968)
Andy McMahon
If it moves, salute it. If it doesn't move, paint it. (RN sailors basic skills course 1968)
- Chris Cairns
- Driver
- Posts: 2366
- Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:25 pm
- Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Indeed it is. Mamod has always been a toy steam manufacturer and the current owners are trying to branch out from that associated mould.Bandit wrote:In fact Mamod is more like a toy than a real steam loco. Due to its price I guess...
When the Mamod SL locomotive was introduced in 1980 the 16mm industry was in its infancy so it offered an attractive priced loco out of which a cottage industry developed for the popular Mamodifications.
We now have the 2nd generation of Mamodificationists who started out with a Mamod/MSS loco due to the initial attractive low capital outlay, but as "Britomart", "Ofario", "Pioneer", "Swordbreaker" and others have proven a lot of money is then spent in developing these locomotives from a solid fuel burning loco with a run time of less than 10 mins. Whereas most of those owners could have bought a much better higher cost & spec loco to start with, it does seem that the tinkering & frustration associated with Mamodification is part of the attraction.
The Roundhouse Basic Series is more expensive for several reasons, not least it uses a better slide valve cylinder (Mamod are having their own version developed as their piston valve cylinder was generally a failure in the locos), and it is subjected to a period of running in under steam with a heavy load around the factory test track (Mamod's are just tested on compressed air). However as Mike has pointed out they are all slip eccentric so changing direction is difficult to achieve under Radio Control. There is a bigger cottage industry associated with modifying Roundhouse locomotives as more of them are sold now compared to the small market for the Mamod & MSS's.
It is a difficult choice to consider what live steam to buy when starting out on a low budget, but without exception you will end up paying out a lot more money as the "bug" develops.
Best of Luck with your decision!
Chris Cairns.
- laurence703
- Trainee Driver
- Posts: 804
- Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:49 pm
- Location: Lost
Ofario had next to nothing spent on it and it ran well... in fact it ran well after a few running in sessions... It didn't need the upgrades but I chose to add them myself.
It didn't get its uprated boiler and cylinders for a long time.
It can be done cheaply if you take your time and don't rush into it but it also depends on what you, The owner, want to do to it.
It didn't get its uprated boiler and cylinders for a long time.
It can be done cheaply if you take your time and don't rush into it but it also depends on what you, The owner, want to do to it.
No one expects the SPANISH ACQUISITION!!!
- dougrail
- Driver
- Posts: 1532
- Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:11 pm
- Location: Salopia; on the edge of Arcadia
If you take your time and work out where to go and where the best deals are, you can make some savings. I had my gas firing system come in for under £10 total cost for example by being able to obtain a gas burner off another loco then selling it on. That burner than got sold on for a good asking price, and the current burner was obtained through bartering. Keeping costs down.
In terms of motion, I can understand that oscillating systems can be a little risky but if you have finely engineered units, you can have s just a good run as an RH. This is where we've suddenly all climbed aboard the Roy Wood Models train as his cylinder units are worth their weight in gold.
My accounts suggest that the basic overhaul cost me about £305 all in for the mechanical/hydraulic performance I have on Swordbreaker today. My extended costs are on accessories [name and numberplates, overlays and tender kit] and also include 'losses' [e.g. £45 lost to Allan Briggs in parts] but that is another story.
In terms of overall costs for a Mamod/oscillator, spread the costs. And plan ahead. Some upgrades fgor the soft boilered basic loco can be recycled on a superloco, such as meth burners if you must, steel wheels, buffers etc but others are not, such as domes, whistles, 1/4 x 26 safety valves etc. So it must be considered at the beginning where you want to go- cheap, 'little engine duties' brass boilered, or superloco.
In previous editions of this discussion, it was asked of me: what were my intentions when I started out on what was to be 'Swordbreaker' in July 2010 onwards? I said I'd get back with answer. Here it is.
~~~~~~
When I bought th engine, it seemed very nice and upgraded, almost to the max for a 'brass boilered' option. Lubricator, upgraded cylinders, water topup, an IP Safety valve, cab regulator control [also IPE] and a 3-wick meths burner for starters. Plus all the brass dressing which it has retained.
The only real upgrades needed of me were steel wheels and these were duly purchased in October 2010 along with a set of DS "gasflow" supercylinders. [I hadn't known then that its old cylinders were uprated pistons in an original housing].
So really, the upgrades I bought were 'transferable'. My original plan had been to fit these and run the loco as-was.
However two things stopped this.
1)The IP safety valve was knacked. It had been scratched in and glued inside!
2)The regulator worked but on the globe valve a thread wa on its last legs. It died. The cost of a new one from DS was prohibitive, and so a whole new regulator kit was going to be needed. £30 plus £10+ for a new safety valve?
I considered this and then considered the £40 would be best served put into the superboiler kitty. And that, is the evolution of how I started out.
As a note, the bust SV went for a fiver as an ornament and the regulator kit went for about £8 for someone to incorporate bits on. So, another £13 toward the superboiler....
In terms of motion, I can understand that oscillating systems can be a little risky but if you have finely engineered units, you can have s just a good run as an RH. This is where we've suddenly all climbed aboard the Roy Wood Models train as his cylinder units are worth their weight in gold.
My accounts suggest that the basic overhaul cost me about £305 all in for the mechanical/hydraulic performance I have on Swordbreaker today. My extended costs are on accessories [name and numberplates, overlays and tender kit] and also include 'losses' [e.g. £45 lost to Allan Briggs in parts] but that is another story.
In terms of overall costs for a Mamod/oscillator, spread the costs. And plan ahead. Some upgrades fgor the soft boilered basic loco can be recycled on a superloco, such as meth burners if you must, steel wheels, buffers etc but others are not, such as domes, whistles, 1/4 x 26 safety valves etc. So it must be considered at the beginning where you want to go- cheap, 'little engine duties' brass boilered, or superloco.
In previous editions of this discussion, it was asked of me: what were my intentions when I started out on what was to be 'Swordbreaker' in July 2010 onwards? I said I'd get back with answer. Here it is.
~~~~~~
When I bought th engine, it seemed very nice and upgraded, almost to the max for a 'brass boilered' option. Lubricator, upgraded cylinders, water topup, an IP Safety valve, cab regulator control [also IPE] and a 3-wick meths burner for starters. Plus all the brass dressing which it has retained.
The only real upgrades needed of me were steel wheels and these were duly purchased in October 2010 along with a set of DS "gasflow" supercylinders. [I hadn't known then that its old cylinders were uprated pistons in an original housing].
So really, the upgrades I bought were 'transferable'. My original plan had been to fit these and run the loco as-was.
However two things stopped this.
1)The IP safety valve was knacked. It had been scratched in and glued inside!
2)The regulator worked but on the globe valve a thread wa on its last legs. It died. The cost of a new one from DS was prohibitive, and so a whole new regulator kit was going to be needed. £30 plus £10+ for a new safety valve?
I considered this and then considered the £40 would be best served put into the superboiler kitty. And that, is the evolution of how I started out.
As a note, the bust SV went for a fiver as an ornament and the regulator kit went for about £8 for someone to incorporate bits on. So, another £13 toward the superboiler....
Thanks for all your great advices ! They are very helpful
This is my decision: a start in live steam needs too much money then my project is canceled.
And one more time: Thank you all !
This is my decision: a start in live steam needs too much money then my project is canceled.
And one more time: Thank you all !
Last edited by Bandit on Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I started this thread with a few questions about the Mamod MkII 1 G loco.
I wanted to make a start in live steam with this loco...
But it's too much money for me and I canceled my project.
I wanted to make a start in live steam with this loco...
But it's too much money for me and I canceled my project.
Last edited by Bandit on Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- Chris Cairns
- Driver
- Posts: 2366
- Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:25 pm
- Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Sorry to hear you have cancelled your live steam project Chris.
However it does give you more time both to read up on the various options available, and more importantly to save up the money required. I'm sure in time you will join the live steam community - keep your eyes open on eBay as the Mark I & Mark II locos that have appeared tend to go quite cheap (sadly due to a software bug with my iPhone & mobile eBay I missed out on the last Mamod Train [Mark I] which went for £140).
Chris Cairns.
However it does give you more time both to read up on the various options available, and more importantly to save up the money required. I'm sure in time you will join the live steam community - keep your eyes open on eBay as the Mark I & Mark II locos that have appeared tend to go quite cheap (sadly due to a software bug with my iPhone & mobile eBay I missed out on the last Mamod Train [Mark I] which went for £140).
Chris Cairns.
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