Dream Garratt

mhlr · Post by **mhlr** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:20 pm

no, it's a shame really! I'd not even be able to afford a Locobox one...

Maesffordd-paul · Post by **Maesffordd-paul** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:40 pm

I'm sure you do know several satisfied owners Paul, but i can assure you that i know many others who are dissatisfied!

I agree entirely with your views about those who criticise on hearsay - it's just not a wise thing to do.
I'm happy to inform you though that my words were not based on 'hearsay', but on 'real actual happenings'.

Again, i'll agree that you'll get the odd 'dud' from any manufacture & most companies will get it sorted for you.

I have owned a Locobox Garratt myself & sadly was a disaster from start to finish - it ended up being sold on. The loco itself wasn't bad (as i'm sure you'll remember me saying in the article i wrote about it for SMT), but the customer service was dire!

Your statement 'from what i have seen of these locomotives' leads me to believe that you don't have one yourself, so before you start questioning one of my posts in future, please ensure that you have all your facts in order!

As i run the 16mmGO&OA, please don't try to tell me that i'm acting just on hearsay when it comes to Garratts in our scale!

Should you wish any more information on the subject, please don't hesitate to contact me...

Chris.

Chris, I am not questioning your knowledge and experience. I just believe that such comments on a public forum are damaging to the manufacturer in question.
Perhaps this is a matter best discussed off group.

Paul.

mhlr · Post by **mhlr** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:44 pm

you are correct there Paul!

SillyBilly · Post by **SillyBilly** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:14 pm

Maesffordd-paul wrote:I just believe that such comments on a public forum are damaging to the manufacturer in question.
Perhaps this is a matter best discussed off group.

Paul.

Yes, I'd prefer if we didn't become well known for tearing companies to shreads

. But all the same, I do like a good debate

!

Matt · Post by **Matt** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:03 pm

Hi. PTLRCecil and his dad own a Loco-box garrat, and from what I've heard from then it's quite a good model. However, they've have had a few problems, inculding one with the lumbricator. The solution was to use oil meant for full size standard gauge locos! This sloved the problem, but resulted in large amounts of oil/water erupting from the chimny. Ironicly, the loco is called 'Black Combe', after a nearby dormant volcano

!

garratt100 · Post by **garratt100** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:16 pm

SillyBilly wrote:
Maesffordd-paul wrote:I just believe that such comments on a public forum are damaging to the manufacturer in question.
Perhaps this is a matter best discussed off group.

Paul.
Yes, I'd prefer if we didn't become well known for tearing companies to shreads . But all the same, I do like a good debate !

We're not tearing companies to shreads, i'm just saying it as it is...

If you bought a new car/washing machine/ computer etc & it didn't work as it should, you'd take it back to the manufacturer/dealer & get it sorted - i'm sure you'd also mention it to a few friends!

I'm all for the companies that supply us with lots of goodies in the garden railway scales (big & small companies), but they are businesses & so need to come up with the goods as we are the paying customers - it's no different to buying your new washing machine...

If i came across a company (i'll mention no particular one) who took money for goods & then didn't supply them - & it happened many more times than once, would i hush it up? I don't think so!

The small producers have just as much responsibility to deliver the goods as the large ones & if they can't do it, then they should cease trading & let someone else take over.
I certainly don't hold with this business of paying for a locomotive & then having to make many adjustments to it so it'l run properly!

I'm sure this will upset some, but however much you are paying for a locomotive from £300 to £3000, it should work as soon as it's out of the box - just like you'd expect a new car to do the same...

Chris.

SillyBilly · Post by **SillyBilly** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:59 pm

Now you say it like that I can perfectly understand. Surely it means that most Mamod locos should of been sent back when first bought

!

mhlr · Post by **mhlr** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:00 pm

yeah, they jolly well should have been!

Maesffordd-paul · Post by **Maesffordd-paul** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:25 am

Well if we're pointing fingers then judging by recent correspondence on another group and feedback I've heard from fellow 16mm modellers you could include Accucraft, Tolhurst and IP in that list.
However, without these traders where would our hobby be?
I still believe that traders should be given a fair hearing before we start shouting their faults from the rooftops, after all in a lot of cases "you get what you pay for". You can't expect a relatively inexpensive loco' to run as well "straight from the box" as a more expensive or bespoke product, and even these aren't without their problems. As i've said before, if they deliver faulty goods then the manufacturer should rectify or refund, even if it means making a nuisance of yourself in order to get them to sort it out. It is not the modellers responsibility to attempt to rectify the fault.

Paul.S

mhlr · Post by **mhlr** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:28 am

if we kept sending stuff back, it would cost more than fixing it yourself too as I discovered!

Maesffordd-paul · Post by **Maesffordd-paul** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:36 am

mhlr wrote:if we kept sending stuff back, it would cost more than fixing it yourself too as I discovered!

In which case the manufacturer is responsible for costs incurred, it shouldn't come out of your own pocket.

garratt100 · Post by **garratt100** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:37 am

Maesffordd-paul wrote: You can't expect a relatively inexpensive loco' to run as well "straight from the box" as a more expensive or bespoke product, and even these aren't without their problems.

Paul.S

Yes Paul, you can expect them to run 'straight out of the box'!

Just because you pay less for an item doesn't mean that it can get away with it being sub standard.
Let's go back to the washing machine again - if i decide to buy a cheaper one, i still expect it to does what it has been manufactured to do. It may not have all the super dooper functions that the more expensive one would have, but it should still work as it was intended!

Mamod were mentioned along the way here - if i bought a new one & it didn't perform as it should then it would be going back.
I don't know about you guys, but i work damn hard to earn my wages from my employer & there's no way i'm going to give it to a manufacturer who's going to think that they can sell me something that doesn't do what it 'says on the tin...'

It all comes down to quality & customer service - sadly something which this country is losing the battle on!

Like you Paul, i'm very grateful that we have all the 'small people' who produce all these wonderful locos etc, but they have to realise that their products need to be made to a certain standard for people like us to buy!

So guys - whatever make of loco you decide to buy in the future, make sure you get exactly what you've paid for - a fully working item that does exactly what it should! If it doesn't, don't just put up with it, send it back to get it sorted!!

Chris.

Maesffordd-paul · Post by **Maesffordd-paul** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:32 am

I appreciate what you're saying Chris, and you're spot on about the decline generally in customer service in this country, It's either a case of not being able to get hold of anyone to complain to, being passed from pillar to post, or as is so often the case now being directed to some call centre in India. Frustrating to say the least.
Getting back to the point in question, my point is that you can't expect a manufacturer to get it right every time. Especially one of the smaller manufacturers who is trying to fit into an already very competitive market.

garratt100 · Post by **garratt100** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:56 pm

Maesffordd-paul wrote:I appreciate what you're saying Chris, and you're spot on about the decline generally in customer service in this country, It's either a case of not being able to get hold of anyone to complain to, being passed from pillar to post, or as is so often the case now being directed to some call centre in India. Frustrating to say the least.
Getting back to the point in question, my point is that you can't expect a manufacturer to get it right every time. Especially one of the smaller manufacturers who is trying to fit into an already very competitive market.

I'll happily admit Paul, that it's possible to recieve sub-standard goods from time to time, but it's the manufacturers responsibility to correct that so you do end up with a 100% product! That is what Trading Standards were set up for!

If the manufacturer makes a cock up, fair enough, but we expect it to be remedied - there is no way that we (the punter) put up with companies who turn out lower standard stuff just because it's cheaper...

If i built you a Garratt & sold it to you brand new & half the bits on it didn't work - would you just accept it & say nothing? I don't think you would...
If i then made a fuss/refused to sort it for you - would you tell your friends? I think you just might...

The more you let a manufacturer get away with sending out low quality items, the more they will do it - we have to stick up for ourselves here!

Chris.

mhlr · Post by **mhlr** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:59 pm

stop arguing you 2!!! rofl!!!

SillyBilly · Post by **SillyBilly** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:40 pm

mhlr wrote:stop arguing you 2!!! rofl!!!

It's a debate I would of thought Pete!

Maesffordd-paul · Post by **Maesffordd-paul** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:03 pm

You're right Chris, but in the end I think we are still going to have to agree to disagree with each other over the particular manufacturer in question. I had a long chat with him at Merstham last year and found him very helpful and approachable. Perhaps he's "changed his ways". you never know.

Paul.

garratt100 · Post by **garratt100** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:30 pm

Maesffordd-paul wrote:You're right Chris, but in the end I think we are still going to have to agree to disagree with each other over the particular manufacturer in question. I had a long chat with him at Merstham last year and found him very helpful and approachable. Perhaps he's "changed his ways". you never know.

Paul.

He always seems great Paul... then you hand your money over...

Please - to protect your selves guys, pay by credit card. At least that way you'll get you money back through the card company if you're loco never arrives - not that i'm suggesting that would ever happen...

Maybe he has changed his ways, we'll see - only time will tell!!

I agree Paul - we'll never agree on this one! That's what makes the forums such a great place to have these lively debates!

Wishing you all the best for the New Year, hope to see you on the 'exhibition circuit' soon,

Chris.

SillyBilly · Post by **SillyBilly** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:09 pm

I wonder if things will change now that it's dealt with through PPS?

Maesffordd-paul · Post by **Maesffordd-paul** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:35 pm

[/quote]

He always seems great Paul... then you hand your money over...

Please - to protect your selves guys, pay by credit card. At least that way you'll get you money back through the card company if you're loco never arrives - not that i'm suggesting that would ever happen...

Maybe he has changed his ways, we'll see - only time will tell!!

I agree Paul - we'll never agree on this one! That's what makes the forums such a great place to have these lively debates!

Wishing you all the best for the New Year, hope to see you on the 'exhibition circuit' soon,

Chris.[/quote]

Sound advice Chris.

As you say, time will tell.

Best wishes to yourself also, yes no doubt we'll meet again at some stage (Hopefully before the Brandon show). I trust you'll have Ttarrag shed looking even more fantastic this year?

Paul.

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