Swordbreaker

[DolwyddelanLightRail]

Doug, your reverser isn't anything to do with "poor performance". If you need more power open up the regulator a bit more. However, if you did so on Sunday (and on other occasions I've seen it run) all you would have done is run away faster and stalled a lot earlier (which it was stalling every now and then.) The issue to me is that Swordbreaker is just not getting enough heat to make enough steam, hence poor performance. The cylinders, reverser etc have nothing to do with that and work perfectly fine as they are so there is no need to start messing about with them. You say the gas was "ramped up", but was it actually turned up very high at all?

[Narrow Minded]

Doug, your reverser isn't anything to do with "poor performance". If you need more power open up the regulator a bit more. However, if you did so on Sunday (and on other occasions I've seen it run) all you would have done is run away faster and stalled a lot earlier (which it was stalling every now and then.) The issue to me is that Swordbreaker is just not getting enough heat to make enough steam, hence poor performance. The cylinders, reverser etc have nothing to do with that and work perfectly fine as they are so there is no need to start messing about with them. You say the gas was "ramped up", but was it actually turned up very high at all?

You might be right James - I admit I didn't pay much heed to the gas setting, but I still maintain that the main difference between the loco's is the amount of running in.
Cast your mind back to when Britomart had the same track mileage under its belt as SB - just as "Free running" back then??

Now you've brought up the steaming issue though, could it be a boiler problem? You certainly shouldn't need to "ramp up" the gas on a ceramic burner! (Usually the opposite in fact)

[laurence703]

When it comes to "free running" My Ofario will roll along freely when not under steam and its not done half the mileage that SB and Brit have done... I think its a matter of how free the loco is mechanically and how much steam is produced as James said.

[Chris Cairns]

Had to go through postings on the other forum to remind me of SB's set up.

So a Bix Ceramic burner which I recall had its jet adjusted on a visit to someone's workshop. You have a pressure gauge so that should show you how good the gas burner is performing when you demand steam.

Were you using Butane Gas? That does not work too well in low temperatures (could that partly explain the fireball in the light up area as well). For these cold temperatures it is recommended to use a Butane/Propane mix which has a lower boiling point.

Continually turning the gas up does not always increase the heat output. At some point the burn pattern will actually lift off the ceramic so it will get colder and there could be more unburnt gas.

There can be a problem with Bix Burners burning inside the ceramic - see here http://www.mainsteam.co.uk/articles/bix_burners.htm & http://modeleng.proboards.com/index.cgi ... hread=2386

As to free running I have found in my experience that the after market steel wheels can be harder to set up for free running (removing the coupling rods has actually increased the running speed on my SL1K restoration).

Chris Cairns.

[DolwyddelanLightRail]

You might be right James - I admit I didn't pay much heed to the gas setting, but I still maintain that the main difference between the loco's  is the amount of running in.
Cast your mind back to when Britomart had the same track mileage under its belt as SB - just as "Free running" back then??

All it took Brit for it to run as much as Swordbreaker does now is roughly a week. That was it running about 3 hours a day for 5-6 days. I ran Swordbreaker in when I had it nearly a year ago, around an hour a day for 3 days, and afterwards it ran a lot better. It then went to the DLR for work and Dan ran it in again afterwards. There is no way on this earth that Swordbreaker needs any more running in, it is not a new model. There are two things I can currently think of:

1 - Either the gas jet isn't in the right place, so isn't allowing enough/too much air to have the correct mixture (Doug - have you altered the jet since you got it back from the DLR?)

2 - The gas just isn't open far enough. Basically Doug don't be afraid to ram it open if needs be, you are not going to cause any damage to the loco at all. However as Chris has said, there will be a point where you won't get any more heat out of the burner. (I don't know where abouts this will be with the only gas burner experience on mamods I have is when I had SB last Feb)

As also mentioned, there may be an issue with the boiler....it may be slightly too thick for what it needs to be? Thus limiting the amount of heat transfered to the water. All locos are different, as can be seen with the clear difference between Britomart, Ofario, Ogwen, Swordbreaker....some locos steam more freely than others, and some have to be fired hard to get it to go, maybe Swordbreaker just needs to be fired hard?

[Narrow Minded]

Not wanting to completely Bungle the thread (after all, it sterted on reversers ), did you have to "fire it hard" when you had it James?
maybe my running-in comment is off the mark - what I was referring to was that in my own experience with Mamods, is that you get 'em running sweetly, but then keep 'em running.
Even just "laying up" for a while seems to knock back the performance - or has no-one else experienced this phenomena?

[laurence703]

I've not had that problem with Ofario... I find the reverser sticks if its left too long but that's about it really... I keep Ofario in my room in its box so its kept reasonably warm as well. It only ventures outside when its being run. Could fluctuating temperatures cause poor performance?

[DolwyddelanLightRail]

Decided to split this into a new thread (I'm getting the hang of this moderator malarky )

Greg - From what I remember, I had to have it turned up a bit for the pressure to stay steady on blocks when running.

Regarding a decrease in performace, I have heard of this off other people, but I have never experienced it myself so I can't say.

[dougrail]

A separate thread? Excuse me...

[Chris Cairns]

Even just "laying up" for a while seems to knock back the performance - or has no-one else experienced this phenomena?

When I suggested that on another Forum I received some negative replies. In my experience with 'O' ring pistons if these have been inactive for some time it takes awhile to re-lubricate them so lots of running on blocks to remove that binding. I find if you can take the end caps off and use some light oil (3 in 1 type) that cleans out the cylinder bore and makes the re-lubrication process quicker.

Most Hornby OO Live Steam locos were stored in warehouses prior to being released some years later and can suffer from what has been referred to as sticktion. This had lead to a recent trial of different material 'O' rings by the OO Live Steam Supporters Club.

However Doug runs Swordbreaker regularly so this should not be a problem. Similarly it is fitted with a PPS replacement boiler (as used in the PPS Janet and presumably the RWM Janet) so that should not be a factor, although as it is thicker than the Mamod/MSS/Dream Steam boilers Doug has already stated it takes more to heat up the water initially. After all the RWM Janet runs well in the Summerland Chuffer videos.

Assuming that the wheels and coupling rods are very free running then it looks like a problem with the gas burner set up. These are not easy to see between the chassis frames with the boiler fitted, and the PPS combustion chamber has a vertical flap sticking down between the chassis (Mamod/MSS ones have a horizontal flap to allow fitting of a solid fuel burner). On my IP Jane fitted with a PPS Ceramic Burner (made by Cheddar Models) I found I had to remove the burner from the loco, then set up the correct jet position on the workbench to get a nice cone pattern over the ceramic material, mark the jet position on the holder, then refit it on the loco to that marked position.

Do we have a partially blocked gas jet? I've never had a blocked jet before but understand it can be a regular occurrence with some locos and particular brands of butane.

Chris Cairns.