IP Engineering 'Jane' History & 'Spot the Difference'

[paullad1984]

I had one of the PPS Jane's and never really liked it, would of prefered one of the earlier ones but by then you couldn't get them. :-(

[dougrail]

What was wrong with the PPS Janet?

[paullad1984]

poor build quality actually, parts kept falling off, usually soldered joints

[pauly]

Did the Jane and later the Janet ever really take off?

I was just reading my old copy of STEAM IN YOUR GARDEN by TAG GORTON and he writes 'New on the market at the time of writing, I confidently expect this locomotive to spawn a new hobby of ''Jane bashing'' with special sections in competitions and ''How to do it'' articles in the garden railway press.''
Now these days not many people seem to know about the Jane and theres certainly not that many kicking around so did Jane ever take off in any real way or was she just there in the background while other locos took the glory?

[Chris Cairns]

poor build quality actually, parts kept falling off, usually soldered joints

I find that surprising to hear as there was only 2 joints soldered on the PPS Janet - silver soldered on either side of the lubricator. The boilers were also silver soldered but were made for PPS Steam.

Now these days not many people seem to know about the Jane and there's certainly not that many kicking around so did Jane ever take off in any real way or was she just there in the background while other locos took the glory?

That is the problem with this Forum. The Mamod stuff was moved into this sub-Forum and many of the previous contributors have moved on. Those that still contribute, including myself, are mainly later converts to the Mamod family, and have acquired many of our locomotives 2nd hand.

The IP Engineering 'Jane' was actually a very successful locomotive selling over 8,500 models worldwide. They still appear on eBay - last one sold for £304.85 on 21 Mar 2013 (it was BB 368). Although it remains the company letterhead for IP Engineering, Ivan Prior moved on from supporting live steam locomotives.

The PPS Jenny was only produced in small numbers, and at the start of 2009 the PPS Janet had sold 200 models (refer to Alan Dunster's Garden Rail Mamod articles).

Reportedly the tooling for them failed, a true shame.

I cannot find the article on-line which I read back in about 2008 which explained that IP Eng cast their own smokeboxes. It was my understanding that those riveted ones were made for the Brandbright Jane. Someone needs to talk with Ivan Prior to get the real facts one day.

Chris Cairns.

[paullad1984]

Perhaps i was jus biased, as id seen the originals and the pps one just wasn't the same somehow, it eventually got passed onto someone else for nothing and i bought a caradoc....which i then sold to buy a sgt murphy..but this is another story!

[pauly]

well I never agreed on the seperation of mamod and the like locos being seperated into this forum, for some reason several individuals had issues with the humble mamods being discussed on the loco board and moved for them to be segregated to this sub board.

really silly, theres so much valuable information here but I was missing it for so long because alot of the time I just forgot about this sub board

[dougrail]

Did the Jane and later the Janet ever really take off?

I was just reading my old copy of STEAM IN YOUR GARDEN by TAG GORTON and he writes 'New on the market at the time of writing, I confidently expect this locomotive to spawn a new hobby of ''Jane bashing'' with special sections in competitions and ''How to do it'' articles in the garden railway press.''
Now these days not many people seem to know about the Jane and theres certainly not that many kicking around so did Jane ever take off in any real way or was she just there in the background while other locos took the glory?

Good question.

I think the heyday of Mamod mashing was the 80s and early 90s where there were more companies providing spares and upgrades, mechanical and cosmetic, on a 'cottage industry' basis. This has reduced rapidly since then and so there isn't the same variety of parts about. Chaney, IPE. Salem. Kenversions.

Secondly, in 2000, RH introduced their basic locos - which probably started quite a few beginners as opposed to the oscillators.

[Spule 4]

Now these days not many people seem to know about the Jane and there's certainly not that many kicking around so did Jane ever take off in any real way or was she just there in the background while other locos took the glory?

That is the problem with this Forum. The Mamod stuff was moved into this sub-Forum and many of the previous contributors have moved on. Those that still contribute, including myself, are mainly later converts to the Mamod family, and have acquired many of our locomotives 2nd hand.

The IP Engineering 'Jane' was actually a very successful locomotive selling over 8,500 models worldwide. They still appear on eBay - last one sold for £304.85 on 21 Mar 2013 (it was BB 368).

Chris Cairns.

Agreed, Janes seem to be holding value well these days.

[pauly]

I suppose we will never see anything quite as charming as the days of real mamodry and Make-Do-Modification in this world of well served modelling

[dougrail]

I dunno, some of us are trying to make a go of stuff....I started out with a battered SLK afterall...

[pauly]

yes but never on the same scale or level of nessecity, we are like classic car enthuisiasts tinkering with our aging motors not because of a lack of more reliable alternatives but because we enjoy our tinkering

[Narrow Minded]

yes but never on the same scale or level of nessecity, we are like classic car enthuisiasts tinkering with our aging motors not because of a lack of more reliable alternatives but because we enjoy our tinkering

Very true

As for some of the previous related comments, for what it's worth I think the introduction of Edrig was the final blow for Janet. With it's low price (and may I even suggest its similar open cab design), it became the "entry level loco of choice" for those who couldn't quite stretch to a Millie (or Bertie).

Also, whatever the reason Mamod threads were given their own sub-forum, I like to think of it in a positive light ~ no other class has been honored with its very own designated part of the forum

[dougrail]

I think a combination of Accucraft with Edrig and Roundhouse with Millie and Bertie started to corner the starter's market.

Add the somewhat-pointless 'stigma' of "oscillator" cylindered engines stemming from the 80s and 90s of Mamod when the factory went through several owners and quality control was up and down like a rollercoaster, added to by the tales of woe stemming from them didn't help.

Thirdly the reduction drastically in the 'industry' of special and upgrade parts [these days it's RWM or DS] followed by the lack of body mods [remember Kenversions] did it in.

Prices, a s/h RH loco can be £450? And an Accucraft, maybe the same, s/h?

However seeing RH now go to nearly £600 new and Accucraft £640+ might open something up. Who knows.

I'm Doug and I like my "classic car". Their format is like a fluid oblong - you can shape it into near anything you like if you try. Saddletanks, tender locos, colonials, gasworks engines, quarry engines...

As for a special forum? Why not - it keeps things clearer for us!

[Lner fan Sam]

Another thing that killed of Janet's and occilators of similar design is the general thought in the 16mm world that they are a very poor design. Yes they can be little buggers at times but when they are running well you always have a smile on your face.

Last Sunday I was at a small steam up and I told I guy that I was building a mss kit and improving it. I was then told that the best thing that I could do was buy a second hand roundhouse basic loco (at £400 pounds I don't think so).

Many people know entering the hobby at my age just simply buy a basic roundhouse or other engines. I picked a mss as they are fun and I could customise it to what I want it to be.

Also having it very own sub forum I feel is a credit to the locos charm and design.

[paullad1984]

personally i have a soft pot for meths fired, pot boilered single cylinders.....it takes all sorts in this world

[Spule 4]

I suppose we will never see anything quite as charming as the days of real mamodry and Make-Do-Modification in this world of well served modelling

Agreed.  I have been snapping up old UK magazines from the 1970s/1980s, the early days of 16mm and a lot of basic stuff, some of it downright crude, but it drips in charm.

No wonder the whole "heritage" movement is live and well.

As for the R/H basic locos and Accucraft offerings...

RWM has a top spec Janet for GBP 410.  RH had another big hike in prices, plus they charge another 20% VAT that is not shown on their website for you domesticated UK modellers.  Accucraft never replaced the overly huge for 16mm Edrig with anything close in price point.  I wonder if a 32mm gauge version of Dora is in the works.

The plus is Roy had a bunch of orders for Janets when I last talked with him right after Christmas~!

So don't count-out the Jane/Janet just yet!

[dougrail]

For whole Janets, plus the growing spare parts clientele too... So, hoping a healthy future for the Janets

Thing is, Accucraft did replace the Edrig with the Ragleth. Sure, closed cab but the cab is open at the back for easy access, like the Caradoc. It's the Lawley with the closed-off cab that's more expertise needed.

[Spule 4]

For whole Janets, plus the growing spare parts clientele too... So, hoping a healthy future for the Janets  ;)

Thing is, Accucraft did replace the Edrig with the Ragleth. Sure, closed cab but the cab is open at the back for easy access, like the Caradoc. It's the Lawley with the closed-off cab that's more expertise needed.

True, replaced in line up, but the price point is GONE. The Ragleth chassis sells for more than the RH basic locos. A Ragleth is $1K US in the US, the Edrig was in the $600 US range in 2008.

[dougrail]

Right now....
RWM Janet - £445
RH Basic [Bertie/Millie] - £598.
Accy Ragleth [closest to Edrig] - £750 or £640.