A cautionary tale.

[grumpfuttock]

A couple of weeks ago I acquired a S/H Regner Lumber Jack, which runs beautifully. A couple of days ago, I fitted a Ronson style gas valve and water filler valve. I steamed the loco for a while to reduce the water in the boiler in order to test the filler valve, adjust the safety valve (set too high)and also to see how long the gas would last. I did not run it, so the lubricator valve and regulator were shut off.

After 15 minutes while it was still in steam I decided to run it on blocks and needed to top up the lubricator. Knowing that the regulator and lubricator valve were closed I started to unscrew the lubricator filler cap in order to drain remove any condensate and replenish the oil. Which I often do with my other locos whilst in steam. I carefully unscrewed the filler cap, and noted that there was no pressure in the lubricator, so I took the cap off. I then found my syringe and stuck it into the lubricator and began to suck out the condensate.

SUDDENLY there was a tremendous bang and there I was with hot steam oil all over my face and hair and workshop ceiling. Luckily I was wearing my reading glasses at the time, so nothing got in my eyes. I am puzzled by what happened, as this has never happened when I replenish my other loco's lubricators whilst in steam. The only expalanation I can think of is that the Lumber Jack lubricator is placed on top of the boiler, and that when some of the condensate was removed the remaining water trapped under the remaining oil suddenly expanded / boiled until it exploded under the oil, like the small explosions that occur in Accucraft smokeboxes..... has anyone got any other explanation?

So if anyone has a Lumber Jack... beware !!!!!

One good thing has resulted from this accident, my hair has a nice shine at the moment and stays firmly in place.

[andysleigh]

that sounds bad John.

I hope you are ok,

I cant think of a way to stop it, its a pity displacement lubricators dont come small enough for 16mm locos.

[Chris]

Thanks for the warning.

Being fairly new to all this I wasn't aware you could refill lubricators while in steam.

Luckily you didn't get any in your eyes.

It is always good to share cautionary tales.

[Chris Cairns]

Interesting, and I'm glad nothing was broken including yourself.

As you say sounds like some water had rapidly expanded, or perhaps even an air bubble after you removed the top.

Not something I've done on my IP Jane as I do not trust the regulator to be steam tight when fully closed, and indeed we had a similar problem with a full size Barclay that ended up running into the buffers with the regulator fully closed (it was leaking).

[SillyBilly]

Shall have to watch out for that.

Yes you can Chris, aslong as the steam supply (be it regulator or seperate valve) is shut of to stop steam going everywhere.

[Chris Cairns]

Yes you can Chris

As I said, we (ARPG) had borrowed the Caledonian Railway's Barclay to run brake van trips. The weekend before I was there it had run gently into the buffers due to a steam leak around the regulator, and could not be stopped by the vacuum steam brake. So I stayed firing this loco instead.

I'm not convinced that the regulator on the IP Jane is steam tight as I've had the odd puff of exhaust steam after closing the regulator fully. Steam at 20-40 PSI can still burn skin if caught out, so why bother to take the cap off the lubricator.

[SillyBilly]

Sorry I was refering to the other Chris, this is mega confusing.

[Chris]

Sorry I was refering to the other Chris, this is mega confusing.

Thanks for clarification Billy, I had assumed you couldn't top up the oil. But I see that if the regulator is completely steam tight then is should be safe to open it lubricator.

What is the advice about Gas? Do you put the burner out and fill up with gas and then relight?

Sorry to have caused confusion with the other Chris.

I've only used meths mamods so far.

[Chris Cairns]

What is the advice about Gas? Do you put the burner out and fill up with gas and then relight?

Absolutely, unless you want to end up in a fireball.

I was filling one of my loco gas tanks which was close to a meths burning loco which was in steam. The ensuing fireball from the gas that is vented whilst filling up the tank caused a few barbecued hairs on my hands, and a heart stopping reaction as well.

Our local 16mmngm group suffered a similar problem with the turntable in their portable layout which was used as the loco preparation area. The gas would sit in the bottom of the turntable awaiting a loco to be lit up with an ensuing fireball. They have now put vents into the turntable.

As long as you do not overfill or have a spillage from a meths burner then these can be easily refilled whilst still alight to keep your loco in constant steam. I do it all the time with my IP Eng burner, plus using a water top up valve as well.

[ACLR]

I keep my mss in steam while topping up the oil. also top up the meths and water as well I use cold tank water so it does take a bit longer to bring back upto steam but thats the time i drain and topup the oil

[Chris]

Good info, thanks.

I top up water and meths (carefully) while in steam with my mamods.

[SillyBilly]

You might be fed up with steaming after one run though, these little Roundhouse locos run for an age, as laalratty will confirm.

[laalratty]

depends which one, the millie will go to 40 mins whereas Berties go for about 20-25 as will most of the rest of the classic range

[SillyBilly]

My friend's 'Sammie' ran for quite a while, presumably it is down to the burner.

[grumpfuttock]

I'm glad to say I did escape from the sudden eruption unharmed.

On the subject of topping up meths tanks, that's what I liked about my 2 Mamod conversions, topping up the meths while in steam ! My tanks were "U" shaped and fitted around the front buffer beam and to the end of the cylinders, thus hiding the "waggley" cylinders. They had a short 5/16" pipe in the top, and two 1/16" drain tubes which went through the bottom of the tank up to just under the height of the wick tubes and ran under the tank sides to the front of the loco, to resemble drain cock pipes.

I had a syringe with a 1/8" piece of bent (100 degrees) copper tube with a collar which allowed me to insert the syringe pipe into the 5/16" filler pipe, and the collar stopped the syringe from going deeper than just under the drain tube level. I would then gently fill with meths pulling back on the syringe now and again until meths instead of air bubbles appeared in the syringe, then I knew the tank was full. I had one of my Mamods running nonstop for 9 hours once !

never try filling a meths tank with a funnel and open bottle of meths, my friend did that once.... he was extremely lucky... escaped with minor burns.

Some years ago I read of someone running a meths fired loco on uncoloured meths, unfortunately he left the loco to a friend to run while he had lunch. when he came back, his friend was puzzled by a flame which had just appeared from the safety valve. Moral.. use food colour or ink from a felt tip pen in clear meths !

We have 94% meths in Denmark, which is also uncoloured. I have not managed to do the same, but on a couple of occasions I have been known to fill my fuel tank with H2O the result of which is considerably more dull and uninteresting than a flame from the safety valve !