Garden Railway Forum

I can see the SBR on the surface in certain areas but not all, however, there is probably enough to hold the gravel in place. I have concerns about the coal though as you are using the SBR as an adhesive rather than a skin.
I'll be interested to see the result of this experiment, particularly if you place it outside after a couple of weeks drying time.
Incidentally, the use of washing-up liquid is to break down the surface tension of water in a dilution. In this case no water so no need for it!

Well the washing up liquid made a difference Peter...

I picked up these tired coaches recently and I prefer the colour of them to my mint brake coach so I might try and replicate the colour or leave it outside as the previous owner of the newly acquired coaches did to achieve the faded look:

tom_tom_go wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:12 pm Well the washing up liquid made a difference Peter...

Interesting Tom... what difference did you notice?

Peter Butler wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:21 pm

tom_tom_go wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:12 pm Well the washing up liquid made a difference Peter...

Interesting Tom... what difference did you notice?

The SBR was much more free flowing through my smaller sized ballast than without the addition of fairy liquid.

tom_tom_go wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:06 pm

The SBR was much more free flowing through my smaller sized ballast than without the addition of fairy liquid.

Yes Tom, that makes sense, but by reducing the surface tension of the liquid you might have also reduced its viscosity and ability to bind the material together when the skin forms. I hope to hear more on the results of your experiment.

So why when I first said this you dismissed it?

tom_tom_go wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:12 pm
I picked up these tired coaches recently and I prefer the colour of them to my mint brake coach so I might try and replicate the colour or leave it outside as the previous owner of the newly acquired coaches did to achieve the faded look:

Sorry, not much to add on the science of SBR, but those coaches look great - and yes, I like the faded cream too, almost ivory. That rake will look lovely behind one of your locos...

Cheers,

Andrew.

I can't comment on the use of SBR as I have only ever used PVA on indoor 4mm railways, but I am interested in the results. On my last 4mm model I did consider using powdered cascamite but never got round to it.

I like the IoM coaches Tom, but I don't know which colour I prefer.

tom_tom_go wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:48 pm So why when I first said this you dismissed it?

The reason I 'dismissed it' is contained in my explanation about my concerns that it might (?) reduce the efficiency of the SBR. I still think it unnecessary to add anything to the SBR as it has proved adequate in the way I have used it myself. In my own small scale, indoor modelling activities I also used washing-up liquid and am familiar with the difference it makes, but our working conditions are nothing like that now and a new way of using materials needs to be embraced.
My advice has been based on personal experience and all I try to do is help you, and others, avoid my earlier mistakes.

Peter Butler wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:20 pm

tom_tom_go wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:48 pm So why when I first said this you dismissed it?

My advice has been based on personal experience and all I try to do is help you, and others, avoid my earlier mistakes.

I think sometimes we all miss-read what is in front of us and I think that maybe was the case with Tom. I am always doing it…

The advice you give Peter, is always for me anyway, given with the best intentions to help us make our hobby better. I will always try something someone else has done and even achieved, but if it doesn’t work for me, then I will try other ways.

The SBR will alter slightly if some other liquid is added to it, mainly because of its compound, it is after all made from rubber. Fairy Liquid, is made with surfactants and other ingredients and if too much is used will counteract against the SBR.

My own advice is also the same has Peter’s, but if you do use it, only do so with very small amounts.

The wagons look great Tom I like the cream one best.

tom_tom_go wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:12 pm Well the washing up liquid made a difference Peter...

I picked up these tired coaches recently and I prefer the colour of them to my mint brake coach so I might try and replicate the colour or leave it outside as the previous owner of the newly acquired coaches did to achieve the faded look:


20180820_180757-01.jpeg

To be quite honest, that reminds me of how IMR stock looked in the 1970s. Most were weather beaten, very weather beaten to the point where the red was almost rose pink, and the odd one had recently visited the paint shop. I think at that time they were painting 2 or 3 a year usually in connection with some sort of heavy repair. The usual drill was for disused vehicles to be stored either at St John's or Douglas in the carriage sheds, so externally they were not that bad!


Peter in Va

The test patch I did last Saturday has dried sufficiently for it to handle the constant rain we have had today so far. Given I have larger ballast underneath the smaller ballast its not 100% solid but it's firm enough to deal with cats or pushing your fingers gently into it.

I will see how it weathers as the gloss finish ruins the look of the track/ballst for me although I have found on the piece of test track mounted on the gravel board that using a pipet over a spray bottle causes a less glossy finish and doesn't get all over the sleepers and track causing them to gloss over as well.

The alternative over SBR is I pull all the track up and secure it directly to the gravel boards so that the boxing in provides a much deeper wall to stop the ballst being kicked off. Other than effort this will mean my track won't be level (those of you who have read my thread from the start will remember I used screws under the sleepers to level the track due to my poor building skills, I have learned much since then!) I won't know how uneven the base is until I pull all the track up, remove the gravel and check it all with a spirit level.

Who's says this is a relaxing hobby eh!

It would be such a shame to rip out all of the levelling work you have so carefully done just to be able to contain your ballast. Having just read your explanation of why you used the screws in the first place has reminded me of your initial post on the subject which I now remember clearly. It also explains why you have used larger, coarser grit to make up the extra height required. You have a bit of a dilemma there, and I am struggling to think of a solution at the moment.

tom_tom_go wrote: ↑Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:16 pm
The alternative over SBR is I pull all the track up and secure it directly to the gravel boards so that the boxing in provides a much deeper wall to stop the ballst being kicked off. Other than effort this will mean my track won't be level (those of you who have read my thread from the start will remember I used screws under the sleepers to level the track due to my poor building skills, I have learned much since then!) I won't know how uneven the base is until I pull all the track up, remove the gravel and check it all with a spirit level.

Who's says this is a relaxing hobby eh!

Whilst this sounds a reasonable idea Tom, and would contain your ballast if the only things impacting upon it were gravity and the weather, I don't think it would solve the problem of your cats making occasional quick movements, squirting the gravel up everywhere, but more importantly, birds. Blackbirds love rooting through gravel and don't care where they throw it, and most other species (sparrows, dunnocks, robins etc) also seem to enjoy it as a pastime

Alas, this is the end of the RWLR in it's current form.

Too much is against it these days and I don't have the time, garden space or enthusiasm to evolve it.

Fear not, the locos and rolling stock will be saved and if permitted I will continue to run the forum without a line?

I have learned much and will hopefully be able to bring this gained experience into the making of the new RWLR one day.

Thank you for all the support and help along the way

Tom

Sad, sad news Tom, really sorry to hear you have lost the battle, not easy to do everything when work gets in the way!
I know you will be back as soon as you are able and always remember, there is a brilliant Forum on-line with plenty of useful tips to get you started!!!!!
Keep the faith,
Peter.

So sorry to hear that Tom. It is strange hobby and it often leaves me wondering why I bother but I always bounce back and I hope you and the RWLR do at some point. You have my vote to continue running the forum and offering help when we need it.

Keep posting and look forward to a reincarnation when you're ready!

Sad news, Tom. Always been interested in seeing developments on your line. It's been a fascinating test-bed. Looking forward to seeing your future endeavours. I'm sure that you'll continue to tinker and experiment, RWLR or no RWLR.

Don't worry about your eligibility for running the forum. I don't think there is a queue of people wanting to rush forward to replace you.

Rik

I can but echo what everyone else has said, Tom. Please continue with the forum and please don't do anything rash, like ripping it all up immediately.
Take time out and reflect, and ideas will surely present themselves eventually.