ROUNDHOUSE NEW LOCO

Dr. Bond of the DVLR · Post by **Dr. Bond of the DVLR** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:36 am

The cylinders look far too small as well!

James-Buzz · Post by **James-Buzz** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:02 pm

Described today to me by one retailer as "a big chunk of nothing" referring to the level of detail.

Keith S · Post by **Keith S** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:45 pm

James-Buzz:52232 wrote:Described today to me by one retailer as "a big chunk of nothing" referring to the level of detail.

I think that's a terrible attitude. I can't speak for everyone (or anyone really) but personally I just couldn't care less about fiddly non-functional details. Some people like them, and I do admire a faithful replica (the accucraft countess has caught my eye for instance) but part of the attraction for me in a live steam engine is the fact that it is a REAL engine, and I think I like the fact that most of the parts on it are also real and do something adds to the authenticity. I wouldn't be too quick to criticize Roundhouse for deciding not to cover their real steam engines with an overabundance of fake piping, fake pumps, fake brake gear, fake safety valves, fake rivets, &c.

I think the pressure gauge peering out the forward porthole on the Countess's cab, again to use that otherwise beautiful model for an example, hurts the eye to a far greater degree than a lack of dummy pipework would.

I always find it a bit pretentious when a "modeller" expects the viewer to ignore a functioning lubricator or pressure gauge or valve gear bolt that is three times bigger than scale for the purpose of functionality,(and in the wrong place to boot) and at the same time admire how realistic the phony Westinghouse pumps or dummy pipework is. Pick a road. Plastic electric-powered replicas are always going to be more to scale than steam powered ones, but some prefer steam because it's more, well, REAL. I personally prefer the spartan detailing on Roundhouse engines.

(I'm not running down the rivet-counters, I'm just not one of them

)

Sir haydn · Post by **Sir haydn** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:48 pm

The cylinders work out about scale for the loco.

I really dont see how they can say a big chunk of nothing. The real locos looked like that, I have the drawings for the real thing infront of me and I actually think it is one of the more 'fully accurate' models. Not like Tom Rolt which needs a wealth of detail to bring it upto an acceptable standard from that point of view.

I think it will look better to people once the lining and crests are on it!

IRON MAN · Post by **IRON MAN** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:31 pm

We can sit around for hours picking out this and that its hasn't got a rivit there or a pipe here... but surely half of the hobby is customising it making it your own engine.

For the price that they are offering I think it is a marvelous engine, not a marvelous model. If you want a marvelous model you go to TME cut of an arm sell a kidney or however else you plan to get hold of a LOT of cash. After you spend that amount of money you get an engine with the rivit there and the pipe there because you pay through the nose for Chris Tolhurst to do it all for you.

If roundhouse turned around with a Tolhurst spec model, which would basically be a shrink rayed model of the prototype you would have to pay TME prices which I'm pretty sure most of us cannot afford and they would get no sales and plenty of stick for making too expensive a model.

This all said I do not agree with roundhouse's decision to make models that are to a 'rubber ruler scale'. The Penrhyn Hunslets for example were ruined by making them suitable for 45mm gauge they were lindas and blanches that had had one two many Mc donalds. This resulted in them loosing the dinstinct look of the penrhyn engine. Which is a pity because they ran well.

I Would like to point out I am not "Gaugist" just thats what I think.

All I ask of roundhouse is to produce a model to 16mm scale with the right bits of metal in the right place ie footplate and bodywork the right shape and size and the 'Look' of the engine captured. adding pipes and other misc stuf can be left to us to personalise to our hearts content.

Anyway don't know where that rant was from but its over now. Wish I could type that much in ICT course

mhlr · Post by **mhlr** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:57 pm

I completely agree with you there IRON MAN, quite frankly I don't care about whether a rivet is in the right place or not, or the odd pipe or so is missing. They leave locos blank so people can customise to their own taste.

If locos were full of detail, I'd end up breaking something off everytime I took it round the garden...

dougrail · Post by **dougrail** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:07 am

Just some basic rivent detail and the odd pipe here and there so it doesn't look like a toy will do me very nicely. *eyes his new Brandbright loot*

If you want an ultra detailed, finescale thing...god damn you'll be paying with your firstborn child.

andysleigh · Post by **andysleigh** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:11 am

i think if you pay that much for a loco, you want the detail.
I certainly dont like or want to pay loads for a loco and then spend even more detailing it.

Keith S · Post by **Keith S** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:12 am

I guess I feel like I understand why Roundhouse builds their engines the way they do. If you, for example, really like the "Tom Rolt" engine (the real one), it's likely you are attracted to it not because of all the pipes and machinery hanging off it, you probably like its general shape and colour, and the fact that it's a steam engine. In the same way, someone who enjoys running steam engines in the garden might enjoy looking at the 45mm "Tom Rolt" for the same reason, not because of the pipes and bolts and rivets but because of the engine's overall shape and proportions. I don't think they "RUINED" it by widening it. Did they make it look a bit different than the full-size "Tom Rolt"? Yes. Did they "ruin" it? Hardly. I was induced to acquire a small live steam engine because I am enthusiastic about steam engines, not because I am interested in scale models. I think the new engine is attractive because it has the same general outline as a full-size engine that I also think is nice-looking. A scale model person might not be attracted to the basic detail level, but I don't really care about it. To me, a whole bunch of non-functioning cosmetic parts makes the engine LESS realistic, because I am approaching the hobby as a steam engine enthusiast, and not a model enthusiast. I suspect this is partly what the people at roundhouse are doing, although this is simply my opinion. Not everybody cares that much about rivets and pipes. That's why some people don't like to put little plastic people in the cab of an engine, and some people do.

Sir haydn · Post by **Sir haydn** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:47 am

The rubber ruler must be in the bin because Tom Rolt and the L&M are scale models.

DVT Dweller · Post by **DVT Dweller** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:41 am

Its all a case of compromise. People are looking at the roundhouse loco's, Why? They are affordable. I know my VoR isnt an exact scale model, so why have I got a roundhouse one? For a few reasons really:

1. I love the real locos.

2. It captures the look well enough to me

3. I can afford it.

As has been said if money was no object I could have got a TME VoR and then I would know its exactly right but I havent got that sort of money to splash out, so i compromise and Ive got the roundhouse version, I love it, the Mrs loves it and that all that matters. If I want to Add bits to it then I can do, when I can afford it. Now Im sure Roundhouse could build one as good as the TME one with every little detail on it but they wouldnt have sold half as many as they have as the price would be far higher. They keep the price down by usuing some generic parts and that means certain bits wont be exact and I can accept that.

It makes me laugh that people complain about everything being to scale when the boiler bands for a start are most likely made from brass that is far too thick in scale terms. Or that have a nice AC Countess set next to one of the Penrhyn ladies or the like, i think the bigger problem there is they are both different gauge. If people want an exact scale model with all the details even down to the right size lumps of coal then pay for it by buying a TME loco or do what was done before the likes of Merlin and Roundhouse came on the seen and made the hobby affordable, get in the workshop and build your own...

Rant over, now to enjoy the lovely sunny day

Keith S · Post by **Keith S** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:51 pm

What I would really like is if Roundhouse made or partnered with someone who made some wagons for their engines. Having to order everything from the internet, I find it difficult to see ahead of time which wagons will look nice with my engine, it would be easier if there were some that were built or recommended by the manufacturer of the engine. I would imagine if I had a "scale" engine it would be especially nice to buy a couple of appropriate carriages at the same time as the engine.

DVT Dweller · Post by **DVT Dweller** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:22 pm

Keith S:52263 wrote:What I would really like is if Roundhouse made or partnered with someone who made some wagons for their engines. Having to order everything from the internet, I find it difficult to see ahead of time which wagons will look nice with my engine, it would be easier if there were some that were built or recommended by the manufacturer of the engine. I would imagine if I had a "scale" engine it would be especially nice to buy a couple of appropriate carriages at the same time as the engine.

Amen to that.

LMS-Jools · Post by **LMS-Jools** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:19 am

Keith&Joanna:52289 wrote:Cheddar used to make carriages to go with their engines, don't see many of them about though.

Just bought 5 of them meself ! lol

Nice size for 1/12th Scale.

laalratty · Post by **laalratty** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:50 pm

LMS-Jools:52306 wrote:
Keith&Joanna:52289 wrote:Cheddar used to make carriages to go with their engines, don't see many of them about though.
Just bought 5 of them meself ! lol :?

Nice size for 1/12th Scale. :D 8)

And soon to become the official North West Area Group "Test your engine" train

grumpfuttock · Post by **grumpfuttock** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:22 am

If my comment about the chimney sparked all this off, I apologise.
I didn't intend to set off a debate on rivet counting etc. :oops:

I don't choose to buy a loco determined by the amount of rivets, pipes and other detail, I even like cheese head screws. Like Keith S writes...I am attracted or repelled by the general looks of a loco. It just so happens that I have always thought the L&M loco to be a real good looker. The size and shape of a loco chimney can have a profound effect on the looks of a loco, and the RH chimney and chimney cap on this model (which looks like it has come from a Lady Anne) to me looks odd in comparison to the original loco, and IMHO spoils the general appearance, looking puny in comparison to the "pure muscle" look that this otherwise fine model and the original exude !

Sorry.. it is hard for me to explain exactly, or maybe I am just a nutter who looks at loco's in that way. I blame it on my father, he did it too, but then...he had been one of the leading draughtsman in the drawing offices of Bagnalls, Kerr Stuarts and the Sentinal Wagon Works and was often critical of the looks of a loco, including some that he had worked on over the years, many moon ago. I wouldn't like to repeat what he said about my first homemade steam locomotive, a Mamod stationary engine driving Meccano flanged wheels via rubber bands. I think he forgot I was only 9 years old. I even proved him wrong...it moved..yeh!

Now I'll crawl away and hide under my stone again.

Keith S · Post by **Keith S** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:34 am

I know what you mean, sometimes I like or dislike the way a locomotive looks without even being able to pinpoint what makes them different from each other.

I've never seen the "real" version of Roundhouse's latest engine, but I think the new model looks really good. I would love to have one of those.

I wonder how the "gaugists" will feel about it, considering the 2'6" gauge of the original means it will probably look better on 45mm track.

Dr. Bond of the DVLR · Post by **Dr. Bond of the DVLR** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:50 am

horah!

andysleigh · Post by **andysleigh** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:03 am

METHSSNIFFER · Post by **METHSSNIFFER** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:07 am

RIVETS RIVETS RIVETS!!! have you seen the rivets on Roundhouse Taliesin absolutely rediculous! and people say its near to scale well kiss my ........ yes its a near to scale but Roundhouse why not finish the job properly....

Garden Railway Forum

ROUNDHOUSE NEW LOCO

Roundhouse

Who is online