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originally from Germany
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2024 4:37 pm
by P.Y.
Greetings colleagues! I want to share with you an amazing locomotive from my collection. This example is in excellent working condition, completely original and in its original paint job. Extremely rare, no signs of rust or missing parts, with excellent signs of age and use. I would appreciate help in attributing this model. Any information about this locomotive is welcome. Best wishes, Yuri
Re: originally from Germany
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2024 4:45 pm
by -steves-
Is that a Bing loco?
Re: originally from Germany
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2024 4:56 pm
by P.Y.
-steves- wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 4:45 pm
Is that a Bing loco?
Maybe it's Bing, but I'm leaning more towards Georges Carette. Maybe I'm wrong, because I'm based solely on the production style. These are my guesses
Re: originally from Germany
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2024 9:42 pm
by Keith S
Guessing is so much more fun when there is no photograph!
I’m guessing it’s a Wilesco “Lukas”.
Re: originally from Germany
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2024 10:27 pm
by P.Y.
Keith S wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 9:42 pm
Guessing is so much more fun when there is no photograph!
I’m guessing it’s a Wilesco “Lukas”.
It turned out to draw a little attention to the topic.
Re: originally from Germany
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 10:30 am
by Phil.P
Do you think that it may have had the original paintwork stripped?
Phil.P
Re: originally from Germany
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 10:42 am
by P.Y.
Phil.P wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 10:30 am
Do you think that it may have had the original paintwork stripped?
Phil.P
Of course not. The locomotive is in original paint and in excellent condition for its age. Perhaps our colleagues from Gemania could help us, but apparently there are few of them on this forum. I tried to log in to one of the German forums, but it didn’t work for me
http://www.altemodellbahnen.de/
Re: originally from Germany
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 1:23 pm
by GTB
P.Y. wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 10:42 am
Perhaps our colleagues from Gemania could help us, but apparently there are few of them on this forum. I tried to log in to one of the German forums, but it didn’t work for me
The German link seemed to work, but as far as I could make out, it mainly covered the small scales from more recent years.
Collecting vintage models is a specialist pursuit within the model railway hobby. For English language resources :-
You could try the TCS in the UK, but they don't have a forum, just a Facebook page.
https://traincollector.co.uk
There is also a similar group in the US, The Train Collectors Association.
https://www.tcatrains.org
Graeme
Re: originally from Germany
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 2:52 pm
by P.Y.
GTB wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 1:23 pm
P.Y. wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2024 10:42 am
Perhaps our colleagues from Gemania could help us, but apparently there are few of them on this forum. I tried to log in to one of the German forums, but it didn’t work for me
The German link seemed to work, but as far as I could make out, it mainly covered the small scales from more recent years.
Collecting vintage models is a specialist pursuit within the model railway hobby. For English language resources :-
You could try the TCS in the UK, but they don't have a forum, just a Facebook page.
https://traincollector.co.uk
There is also a similar group in the US, The Train Collectors Association.
https://www.tcatrains.org
Graeme
The German forum I linked earlier has an entire section dedicated to vintage toys. I have read many threads and articles from this section and I can say with confidence that there are professionals on this forum, and we are not just talking about small calibers
http://www.altemodellbahnen.de/t40600f2 ... Plank.html . Thank you for providing links to English-language resources. Previously, I found a wonderful English-language resource for myself:
http://www.tcawestern.org/plank.htm
Re: originally from Germany
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 11:28 am
by Chalkfarm
The problem I have with this loco is that I cannot find any storkleg live steamers that are driven by the front wheels. This could possibly be an alteration made by a previous owner. Checking through my collection of pictures and notes made over the years, the cab is very much Schoenner looking, as are the slightly smaller rear wheels fitted to some Schoenners storklegs. This cab type was produced c.1900-1905.
Apart from the manufactures making design changes during production for different retailers as well as their own reasons of supply of parts etc, many engines have been repaired and refurbished over their long life and changes made by earlier owners. This can make identification very difficult, which is not helped by the line drawings in early catalogues which are often no more than artists impressions.
Re: originally from Germany
Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 5:32 pm
by P.Y.
Chalkfarm wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 11:28 am
The problem I have with this loco is that I cannot find any storkleg live steamers that are driven by the front wheels. This could possibly be an alteration made by a previous owner. Checking through my collection of pictures and notes made over the years, the cab is very much Schoenner looking, as are the slightly smaller rear wheels fitted to some Schoenners storklegs. This cab type was produced c.1900-1905.
Apart from the manufactures making design changes during production for different retailers as well as their own reasons of supply of parts etc, many engines have been repaired and refurbished over their long life and changes made by earlier owners. This can make identification very difficult, which is not helped by the line drawings in early catalogues which are often no more than artists impressions.
The fate of this locomotive is unique. It has absolutely no wear and tear, as it spent many years in oblivion in the attic, going through the revolution and subsequent wars. All elements are perfectly preserved and it is obvious that they have no wear, but only suffer from time (an example is damaged paint). Believe me! There is not a single trace of artisanal design changes or homemade modifications on this locomotive (I will take additional photos for you). I received this locomotive without handrails and this is the only element I made (this is clearly visible in the photo). I will send you a photo of this locomotive with a layer of centuries-old dust. He is the way he was invented. This is a guarantee! Toys from the same manufacturer differ greatly depending on the region of sale. This German locomotive spent its entire life in Russia. It was sold here new and has not been modified. I have also never seen a similar locomotive. The front end design is very structurally reminiscent of the E.P. including the pipe, which surprises me with a glass insert. The wooden handle and whistle are also elegantly crafted, in stark contrast to the rough handling of these elements at Bing, for example. I see this locomotive as a transitional locomotive between the Stork eras and more complex models. And I believe that the search vector you have chosen correctly points to Schoenner. Thank you for supporting this topic and I hope that the auto translator did not distort the meaning of my message.
Regards, Yuri
P.S. Soldering with tin in the boiler support areas and at the steam engine inlet is my job. Everything else is original
I posted as many photos as possible in previous posts as well.
Re: originally from Germany
Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 11:20 am
by Scrat
I only know the Plank VULCAN being driven on the first axle.
Re: originally from Germany
Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:32 am
by P.Y.
Scrat wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 11:20 am
I only know the Plank VULCAN being driven on the first axle.
The similarity in style and design from E.P. "Vulkan" is obvious. It would be interesting to hear the opinion of German colleagues, but I have no contacts among German collectors.
P.S. If you or someone from the participants of this forum has the opportunity to post a link to this topic on the German forum, then I would be grateful to you.
Re: originally from Germany
Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 8:35 am
by rebelego
Nice loco! What is the gauge? Do you have the burner and tender? Can you take photos showing the whole loco from the front and both sides?
Re: originally from Germany
Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2024 11:43 pm
by P.Y.
rebelego wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 8:35 am
Nice loco! What is the gauge? Do you have the burner and tender? Can you take photos showing the whole loco from the front and both sides?
Unfortunately, there is no tender. Track (spur) 2
Re: originally from Germany
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2024 7:35 am
by rebelego
Cool! The old track gauge numbers are very confusing.
Just to be sure ... Can you measure it in mm? Or take a photo with a ruler?
Re: originally from Germany
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2024 8:01 am
by P.Y.
rebelego wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 7:35 am
Cool! The old track gauge numbers are very confusing.
Just to be sure ... Can you measure it in mm? Or take a photo with a ruler?
Re: originally from Germany
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2024 10:35 am
by P.Y.
rebelego wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 7:35 am
Cool! The old track gauge numbers are very confusing.
Just to be sure ... Can you measure it in mm? Or take a photo with a ruler?
We would be pleased to hear your opinion and the opinion of your colleagues
Re: originally from Germany
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2024 3:47 pm
by rebelego
My wild guess is Ernst Plank Spur 8 65mm, but I'm not a collector.
It can also be what Carette and Bing called Spur III 67mm, which Schoenner called Spur IIa.
At that time there was no common standards as today.
And the guage was measured at the top of the round rails, not between as done today.
You should try the German forum
Historische Modellbahnen.
Post in the subforum
Tinplate und andere große Spuren / größer als 1.
Re: originally from Germany
Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2024 8:04 pm
by P.Y.
rebelego wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 3:47 pm
My wild guess is Ernst Plank Spur 8 65mm, but I'm not a collector.
It can also be what Carette and Bing called Spur III 67mm, which Schoenner called Spur IIa.
At that time there was no common standards as today.
And the guage was measured at the top of the round rails, not between as done today.
You should try the German forum
Historische Modellbahnen.
Post in the subforum
Tinplate und andere große Spuren / größer als 1.
Thank you for your answer and help with the forum.