Garden Railway Forum

I think, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel now, I can't believe how long this has taken me so far. Hopefully not too much longer now though. These were taken this morning ( that strange glow is something that I am reliably informed is called "sunlight"?)

Still awaiting fitting of the engine and associated pipework, dome cover, whistle and bits and pieces which are mostly currently in the paint shop, and crew, who are on the printer, and then of course the whole thing needs grottying.

philipy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:39 am I think, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel now, I can't believe how long this has taken me so far.

I can’t believe how little time has elapsed since Rik posted the photo and you having produced this superb model, with all the detailed research that has gone into understanding what the photos actually showed! It really does look terrific.

It's a weird and wonderful thing you have created, Dr Frankenstein!!! I fear though you might fall out of favour when the reservoir is dug in the lawn.

Peter Butler wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:36 am I fear though you might fall out of favour when the reservoir is dug in the lawn.

Funny you should say that, I was wondering if I could get away with running a circle of track around the pond!

Enjoyed all the detective work. The enhanced image is amazing and so’s the model. Clever!

Wow! What an achievement. I assume the visible chain drive is cosmetic.
It does look good!

Rik

Thanks Rik

ge_rik wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 7:07 pm I assume the visible chain drive is cosmetic.

Noo.. it's functional, in that the front axle is driven and the chain links to the rear axle for 4-wd. I'll put up an upside down pic tomorrow ( if I don't forget!).

philipy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:56 am I know we talked about brakes some while ago and I keep coming back to it - there must have been brakes somehow, somewhere.

I've been looking at the pic again and I think the angled piece of metal is part of a mounting bracket for something. It looks like the edge stiffener on some sort of bracket, maybe one edge of whatever supports the brake wheel shaft.

Early locos had no brakes at all, the 'Rocket' being a prime example. Stopping power relied on the guards applying whatever brakes were fitted to rolling stock and the driver reversing the loco., which wasn't easy in the days of gab gear. Australian timber trams were typical of other industrial railways here and until they disappeared after WW2, stopping a train relied on the loco handbrake, plus primitive handbrakes on some vehicles in the train. There are rusting wheelsets still to be found in the bottom of creeks in the hills behind Melbourne, to testify that the limited brake power sometimes wasn't enough. I would think the same applied in the UK on construction railways.

Hudsons sold skips with handbrakes as an optional extra and a loaded skip probably had more braking power than a very small loco like this one. I doubt a small homemade job would have had anything except the handbrake, although bigger locos from someone like Hunslet, may have had a steam brake as well as a handbrake. It wouldn't surprise me if the brake is a crude track brake, ie the baulk of timber between the rear wheel and the rear headstock. The loco is too light to provide much in the way of brake power anyway and the crew probably had to rely on keeping speed low and hoping the bloke riding the skip with a handbrake was awake when they needed him.

The model is coming along well, looks like you are on the last stretch. You'll have to keep a copy of the photo with the model though, to prove to onlookers that something like that really did exist.

Your next job may be to knock up a couple of skips with the extended frames for fitting brakes.

Graeme

Catching up on this thread - bloody brilliant work.

GTB wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:55 am

Hudsons sold skips with handbrakes as an optional extra and a loaded skip probably had more braking power than a very small loco like this one. I doubt a small homemade job would have had anything except the handbrake, although bigger locos from someone like Hunslet, may have had a steam brake as well as a handbrake. It wouldn't surprise me if the brake is a crude track brake, ie the baulk of timber between the rear wheel and the rear headstock. The loco is too light to provide much in the way of brake power anyway and the crew probably had to rely on keeping speed low and hoping the bloke riding the skip with a handbrake was awake when they needed him.


Your next job may be to knock up a couple of skips with the extended frames for fitting brakes.

I understand what you are saying, but I'm not totally convinced that an undertaking that could only run to this contraption as motive power would spend the extra money for 'complicated' braked tippers.

I'm assuming that you are thinking of these? : I'm not sure of the date of this illustration, but that brake mech and the wheel bearings look to be a lot later than I think the loco is.

The frame and mechanism wouldn't be difficult to print off. In fact there are a set of stl's on Thingiverse for exactly this type of frame in it's standard format and it would be pretty easy to stretch it. I actually printed one off, years back when I first got the printer and was experimenting to see what it could do, but never finished it. I was intending to get steel wheels for it and it never quite happened so the bits are still sitting on the shelf.

I've had a number of attempts to find pictures of 19th & early 20th c construction works of any kind but they are very few and far between and mostly show horses and carts and men with wheel barrows. The ones with rail tracks usually have nothing on them!

Anyway, this is another rabbit hole that I am NOT going down!

The other thing that I'm vaguely aware of is the buffer situation, in that it has none! That seems to suggest that it was pushing and pulling dumb buffered vehicles, because if not, the loco coupling hooks wouldn't last 2 seconds. Plus the big heavy wooden buffer beams have a sheet metal face.
This might suggest that they were only using it for timber built waggons?

philipy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:57 am I understand what you are saying, but I'm not totally convinced that an undertaking that could only run to this contraption as motive power would spend the extra money for 'complicated' braked tippers.

<snip>

I'm not sure of the date of this illustration, but that brake mech and the wheel bearings look to be a lot later than I think the loco is.

That illustration is in the 1915 Hudson Catalogue, but I think it probably goes back further.

I was thinking of the O&K skip brake arrangement, which Hudson copied, but maybe not until after WW1??? There's a scan of an O&K Catalogue from about 1900 on this link. https://www.zelmeroz.com/album_rail/eur ... t600-T.pdf

To be honest I'm not sure just what this little loco was used for. If that was all they had for moving spoil they'd still be building the reservoir today, 100 years later.

All I can come up with is that it was built for carting maintenance workers, tools and parts around the site when needed and was kept on for that use after the contract finished, until either the track was torn up, or it was replaced by something like a Lister RT, or maybe a Simplex.

I worked in quality control for a time and there is a basic principle that 10% of the problems take up 90% of the available resources. I find modelling projects are similar, the last 10% of the project (mostly the detailing) takes 90% of the time .......

Graeme

GTB wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:19 am I worked in quality control for a time and there is a basic principle that 10% of the problems take up 90% of the available resources.

From my days as a teacher, this sounds very familiar of the classroom.....

Rik

GTB wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:19 am
To be honest I'm not sure just what this little loco was used for. If that was all they had for moving spoil they'd still be building the reservoir today, 100 years later.

Not far off reality, KG V was started in 1908 but the 2nd reservoir of the pair wasn't finished until 1951.

GTB wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:19 am the last 10% of the project (mostly the detailing) takes 90% of the time

Ain't that the truth. Even on this I keep spotting things. Yesterday I was looking at how the couplings were fitted when I spotted two whacking great nuts, bolts and packers on top of the front buffer beam.

As promised, pictures of the underside. Actually I've shown the chassis from top and bottom, for interest, although it's all fairly simple and pretty conventional apart from using self adhesive copper strips on the underside to join the 2 halves of the battery pack.

You have done some excellent research and design on this project Philip - I think you could be an excellent experimental industrial archaeologist! I hope you grace us with more pictures and maybe a video once you have completed it.

Lonsdaler wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:30 am I hope you grace us with more pictures and maybe a video once you have completed it.

Yes please! A remarkable model of a remarkable locomotive...

I'd forgotten you'd included sound - I wonder what such a beast would have sounded like?! I hope you've chosen something recorded on a loco with lots of cylinders, even more wheels, and a huge loud chime whistle...

Andrew wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:11 pm I wonder what such a beast would have sounded like?! I hope you've chosen something recorded on a loco with lots of cylinders, even more wheels, and a huge loud chime whistle...

On the assumption that the engine was begged, borrowed or stolen from a steam launch, thats what I've gone for - ripped the soundtrack from a Youtube video. It was difficult to get one that didn't have lots of gricer types yacking over the top, or sounds of water slooshing past!

philipy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:20 pm

Andrew wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:11 pm I wonder what such a beast would have sounded like?! I hope you've chosen something recorded on a loco with lots of cylinders, even more wheels, and a huge loud chime whistle...

On the assumption that the engine was begged, borrowed or stolen from a steam launch, thats what I've gone for - ripped the soundtrack from a Youtube video. It was difficult to get one that didn't have lots of gricer types yacking over the top, or sounds of water slooshing past!

Good plan!

The water might have been OK, for a reservoir line...

Forgot to say, by the way, but that stretch of line in the pond photo is lovely, looks just right...

That is a very neat set of printed components! Really impressed with the way the filament printing and resin printing have come together in a really quirky little loco. It is going to look brilliant when its painted.

I am interested in what you are using for the sound card?

Trevor

Trevor Thompson wrote: ↑Mon Jan 31, 2022 2:13 pm

I am interested in what you are using for the sound card?

Trevor

Based on one of Rik's developments, from his Peckforton blogs. The sound card he was using only had 30sec recording time, but he found a way of hacking it to repeat play. The Chinese seem to have changed their electronics now and that hack doesn't work ( at least not for me!). However they now do a 4minute one. A bit more expensive, but I figured that 4 minutes is a long tme for this little beastie to be ambling about. So this is what I've got:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07KTWLXPL? ... ct_details
I changed the speaker for a 26mm diameter one to get it inside the boiler, and chopped the PCB to remove the button cells and physically reduce the o/a size and then linked it to run off the main battery pack.