Garden Railway Forum

As per the title, I've seen the concept at work from a distance and would love to give it a try.
However sacrificing a perfectly serviceable set of points on the alter of curiosity seems rather extravagant.

For the unenlightened I'm talking about a set of points with no moving parts that allow traffic to trail through from either diverging road, but always send facing traffic to the same exit.

It appears to involve trimming one blade and then adding a carefully placed check rail or two. If anyone has a working version would it be possible to post a picture looking directly from above? The proposed starting point (forgive the pun) will be a Peco short radius turnout.

If you are still wondering a pair could be used to control a passing loop with trains always bearing to the left, or in my case controlling the entry to a triangular junction from a branch where traffic always needs to turn right onto the mainline and then exit from the left.

How about using a set of spring-loaded points?

Out of curiosity I tried pulling the point blade out of a conventional single bladed set of points, which still works as it turns out. There's a bit of a bump in the facing direction because the wheels fall into the hole where the point blade is supposed to be, but you'd fix that if you were building one like this by design.



The point blade normally goes at the top. Excuse all the dust and crud that gets dragged in here by the rollingstock at this time of year.

Melbournesparks wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:02 am There's a bit of a bump in the facing direction because the wheels fall into the hole where the point blade is supposed to be, but you'd fix that if you were building one like this by design.

On the 1:1 version above ( admittedly not quite what you want) there can be seen a pad for the flange to run on when transitioning. This is fine on a railway with standard flange size but flange depth tends to vary significantly when modelling

11thHour wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:52 am

Melbournesparks wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:02 am There's a bit of a bump in the facing direction because the wheels fall into the hole where the point blade is supposed to be, but you'd fix that if you were building one like this by design.

On the 1:1 version above ( admittedly not quite what you want) there can be seen a pad for the flange to run on when transitioning. This is fine on a railway with standard flange size but flange depth tends to vary significantly when modelling

Luckily for normal profile 45mm gauge wheelsets the geometry works so you don't strictly need to do that, as long as the gauge is accurate the outer part of the wheel tread engages with the stock rail before the inner part leaves the static "point blade". It is still a good method of making a smooth run through a frog though, both in modelling and full size practice.

Thanks everyone, food for thought.
Time to bite the bullet and take the Dremel to my oldest set.

In my early days, around turn of century, I made extensive use of fixed points.
Most were scratch-bodged form plain track split and joined.
Before taking the Dremel to expensive points, see these pics:-
[attachment=1]MRPOINT01.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=0]MRPOINT02.jpg[/attachment]
These were made from Tenmille track.
That seems to be my limit for posting pics.
Will try next post

These are from Peco track:-
[attachment=1]MRPOINT03.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=0]MRPOINT04.jpg[/attachment]

Scratch built on wood sleepers, and short-lived:-
[attachment=1]MRPOINT06.jpg[/attachment]

and one from Mamod track with Peco rail for "blades":-
[attachment=0]MRPOINT05.jpg[/attachment]

These all worked well for several years.
Snags occurred when visitors felt the need to run wrong road.

Then Peco introduced their small radius points, which I fitted with return springs.

Interesting there are no check rails for the frog. Is that because stock only ever trailed through the frog on the curved route?

Rik

On the topic of check rails for crossing, when ever I have built 7mm scale turnout I have always run stock through them with out the check rails first a few times before fitting the check rail, if they don't work reliably with out the check rail I have always work on the basis it will cause problems later at some stage.

Back on topic, I am wondering how these turnouts would work if the straight road was the trailing direction and the curved line, crossover, was the facing direction which is the scenario I could definitely see a use for them on my tramway.

David

Rob - That is absolutely brilliant. I assume as you created so many they proved reliable.
Studying the pictures and noting the lack of check rails, is the favoured facing road determined by which blade you have left longest?

To the people who mentioned sprung points, I use Peco points in their standard configuration at the entrance to my balloon loops and allow locomotives to switch them. The problem I found with sprung points (with the normal spring removed) is that to get them to locate firmly enough for facing travel they derail wagons about 3 wagons down the train.

This fixed idea just seemed so elegant.

There wasn't much science involved!
I've always been "into" tramways, and they make much use of single blade points, with one side being left open/fixed.
Others posted some pics of this arrangement.

The idea was that in the facing direction, vehicles would take the line of least resistance, ie ​straight ahead.
As you mentioned, in trailing there was no problem.
Lack of check rails was eventually remedied, in the conventional positions.
In some cases there was a tendency to deviate from straight, so an extra check rail was placed at the heel, away from the curve.

It's all in the mists of history now!

My way of springing Peco points is to use the small spring from a floppy disk case.
More history? In most cases, the Peco cover could be fitted back over the spring.

As you can imagine, light wagons were not happy, so a good deal of ballast is used.

Most of my points are also fitted with a manual lever, pressing against the tie bar, so routes can be changed.

re-opened the case with title TRAM turnouts .. didnt know topic was here

Hello MRAIL Looks like you are real TRAM fan : No I wont accept spring points

Looks to me as if real modern trams have invented a unique and ingenious way of doing this Single track to double passing point
NO moving parts. Nothing up their sleeves
From all the pics here I still dont understand how this can work How the the wheel flange is actually directed according to direction ?
Can anyone make a diagram with a picture of a real one showing hwo the flange is directed with arrows ? ( both ways )
Meantime I have written to some industrial tram companies to see if they can give guidance . Let you know if it comes up trumps I am determined to build them for my tram layout.
here is the puzzle again

Hi chaps,
This latest diagram appears to show Y points at each end of the passing loop.
This would be conventional practice for tramways.
The system I used depends on the tram/train approaching the loop on the straight, and continuing straight ahead.
Exiting the loop is on the curve.
This format of passing loop was once known as "thrown over".
[attachment=0]OpenLoop.jpg[/attachment]

Persuading the vehicle to take the curved approach would be a challenge.

I don't know if this is any help? I found an old, long, tramway track thread on RMWeb and the last page (mainly) deals with this subject.
https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index ... ks/page/3/

and I found a similar tread on G Scale central
https://www.gscalecentral.net/threads/n ... ts.175076/

..and finally I found a US Patent for fixed tramway points with diagram
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/ ... xed+points

There is a lot of info out there... Google is your friend!

spaeker wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:52 pm Looks to me as if real modern trams have invented a unique and ingenious way of doing this Single track to double passing point
NO moving parts.

Which system is this? I've never seen a static set of points on a modern system before and even single bladed are rare in new construction. If you can find a picture of it (try streetview if it is in street trackage) we might be able to work out how it works.

guys thanks so much for contributions
to put this discussion to bed with a hope of a trial to model the real thing

Does anyone know / have links to/ could possibly be allowed to visit the track > recent real tramway / light rail designers To ask them the design of these special passing point track diverters


I am a newbie Wanting to make a tram layout Londoner I look at the newish real Croydon Tram link .
II look at at those trams going single track to passing point stations I cant get close enough to actually see the cross over network in detail
But there is NO hint of any track side control apparatus on these "points" Whether or not there is some moving part in them> surely doubtful.
The maintenance cost of such would surely provoke a fixed solution to send on tram one way .. Plastic drinks bottle stuck in the track etc etc

I have tried to contact modern tramway designers as my best hope to find out the truth. Sadly none have responded Can you help ?

Here is a link to the most excellent amateur documentary of that network now running . Alas the guy who researched it all has died It is very well worth a look
https://www.croydon-tramlink.co.uk/

I did make my own system added a moving flexible joint ( just one). Worked fine but this cannot be the real world solution ?
google earth doesnt come anywhere near close enough to see.
ciao spaeker