Garden Railway Forum

Hi All,
I have been developing a model of the FfWHR's Superbarns. Just a few details like the battery boxes, door handles and Vac/electrical pipes to go.
The carriage shown is an accurate 16mm scale model of the carriages 121, 108 or 103. https://www.festipedia.org.uk/wiki/Carriage_108…
With a few alterations I will also be able to make the newest carriages (Supersaloons) 117, 118, 119. With the larger panoramic windows.
http://www.festrail.co.uk/content/uploa ... 176817.JPG
Produced from laser cut plywood and 3D printed parts. The 3D printed windows and doors enable all the bevel details to be created adding to the character of the model. it will run on an accurate model of the latest FR bogie.
Future plans are to produce the new FR observation carriage 150 and the new service car 125. (Well it would be rude not to do the full set!)
I am putting this up now as I would like to gauge interest. If there is enough interest I will produce a batch. Potential for a choice of liveries couplings and options like passengers/lighting and weathering. Intended for SM32 however SM45 should be possible for those of that persuasion.
Prices TBA
Regards
Dan Jones
North Wales Carriage & Wagon Works

[quote="IRON MAN:1146. Potential for a choice of liveries couplings and options like passengers/lighting and weathering. Intended for SM32 however SM45 should be possible for those of that persuasion.
[/quote]
Not offered in kit form then?

Hi Peter,

Sorry I am intending on making batches of RTR models only for the time being. Although I potentially may sell the bogies separately.

Dan

Hi, i may be intersted, have you got any idea on price? i know you said TBA but do you have a figure in mind?

A kit form does sound more interesting, but a best guesstimate on price would be needed to give a more definitive answer, for me anyway.

On the plus side, it looks amazing and I think it you have done a sterling job so far.

Hi,
Price does seem to be cropping on most peoples minds. Mine included! I will have a rough idea of price after the prototype has been built.

Regards

Dan

Price. You must be pitching at £500+ per unit (with interiors ?) to make it worth your while as an RTR. You are going to seriously limit your market if you do not offer both 32 & 45 mm options. Do not assume your target market, which I assume are NGG16 owners, both the 150 Accucraft and sundry John Britain and ELR made, are that well funded to go out and lash out on a rake at RTR prices.

You already have the GRS resin job out there in kit form at around £250 with bogies and wheel sets. It's been around a while so those that have been sold  are mostly now built so you have got to match their owners self chosen "WHR colours" to get the RTR orders.

Not to mention Jurassic can do a 4 car set of laser cut SA coach stock in kit form for a 16 mm NGG16 to haul at £600 + wheel sets the lot. I know which one I would spend my money on given the above.

I'd start with the observation car to gauge interest to see if those with the GRS cars bite. You don't have to colour match it as an RTR and you'll get good feedback of what the market needs from those buyers. You have got GRS about to wade in with a live steam K1 so they might redouble their efforts with their existing product and open up opportunities for you.

Love the sound of what you are doing but only in kit form at a max', if laser cut with bogies, of £200 per unit. Might pay £250 for the obs' as a kit with interior detail. Max

Hello Max,

Thank you very much for your feedback. With this rake of Ffestiniong railway super barns I will be aiming at the taliesins, penrhyn ladies, New elr double fairlies, lyd and any other engines I have missed mountaineer?

Regarding costings you have listed. I do have it in mind that £500 will leave you with a decent amount of change for a ready to run model.

I find your analysis of the market for WHR carriages pretty bang on. I am pretty sure that there would be people interested in rtr stock not sure on how many as you don't see many/any grs whr coaches around.

It does raise an interesting question of how long a rake of carriages would Garrett or double fairlie owners like to run? Being that the prototypes run regularly with 11/12 in tow. I can't see many people going the hole way and running long 10 car sets. I imagine most will settle with six. Personally I cannot wait to see a decent length FR set. But then again I may be biased.

IRON MAN:114796 wrote:It does raise an interesting question of how long a rake of carriages would Garrett or double fairlie owners like to run?

Not FR stock, but a typical Garratt-hauled train on my line (since lengthened by addition of a matching full brake)...

IRON MAN:114796 wrote:Hello Max,

Thank you very much for your feedback. With this rake of Ffestiniong railway super barns I will be aiming at the taliesins, penrhyn ladies, New elr double fairlies, lyd and any other engines I have missed mountaineer?

Ah, I thought you meant the WHR stock, misread the link. All the best with your project.

Still think need to offer kits and 32/45 gauge options. Careful that a more budget minded operator does not step in with a similar but lower spec'ed product if the market is proven to be there.

Consider also that the full length coaches may no work on a lot of railways due to lengths and overhangs. Could never see myself running more than 3/4 coaches on my line (fitted into 24' X 12' garden). Those with shorter wheelbase locos, as those on the FR are, may not have the larger radii curves that these may need.

Have you thought of making up a prototype and taking a pitch at the 16 mm NGM  show in April to gauge interest ? Should be doable given your production methods. Max.

IRON MAN:114796 wrote:Hello Max,

It does raise an interesting question of how long a rake of carriages would Garrett or double fairlie owners like to run? Being that the prototypes run regularly with 11/12 in tow. I can't see many people going the hole way and running long 10 car sets. I imagine most will settle with six. Personally I cannot wait to see a decent length FR set. But then again I may be biased.

For me, my Garrat is a typical freight hauling loco.

Sorry if you have answered this already somewhere - is there a reason you are only intending to sell them RTR? Not that it is a problem, I'm just curious!

Looking very nice though, what tool are you using to create those drawings?

Regards from another Dan!

Hi all,

That's a nice looking rake that Tony. Just thinking how good that would look with a WHR rake.

@max,

I thought you had, but no worries it was interesting to hear. I agree 32mm/45mm gauge is the way to go. I had thought about the AGM however I will be busy operating at the show. I am aiming to have the OBS and service car at least at a prototype stage by the AGM. Probably much sooner.

@Dan

Mainly aiming for R-T-R batches because I don't have to worry about designing a kit that other people can put together. I am using Autodesk Inventor to to the CAD work.

Regards

Dan

IRON MAN:114816 wrote:Hi all,
@Dan

Mainly aiming for R-T-R batches because I don't have to worry about designing a kit that other people can put together. I am using Autodesk Inventor to to the CAD work.

Makes sense - thanks for the reply. I have sent a PM

Have you considered doing some of the old style barns? Or possibly the Tin Carrs; I know the Ffestiniog are replacing them with the Superbarns, but I'm sure a rake of push pull carriages would be great with Criccieth Castle and Swift Sixteens new Conway Castle?
The old barns could be interesting due to the different eras that can be modelled and can be painted in Teak, Cherry Red and the current "Mountain Prince" livery. They would also provide a more prototypical train as the carriage sets often have old and the new superbarns carriages.
I'm glad someone is finally seriously making FR modern stock, in my mind they're just has heritage as everything else, along with the Square

Hi,

I have yes, once I have the Superbarns nailed I will be looking at producing (in no order) Barns, Carnforths and Tin Cars. I have already started thinking forward to the Barns as they will need similar construction techniques to the Superbarns.

The laser cutting has been done for the prototype and the Shapeways parts have arrived. I will post pictures in due course. There are a few issues that I have to deal with, nothing major but will delay the prototypes assembly.

Long live the Mighty Square.

Regards

Dan

IRON MAN:114987 wrote:Hi,

I will be looking at producing (in no order) Barns, Carnforths and Tin Cars. I have already started thinking forward to the Barns as they will need similar construction techniques to the Superbarns.

Ah...... That might affect what I'm working on for my own stuff... You have a PM.

Cheers,

Jon