Garden Railway Forum

Back to the Cliff Barker points:-

Roger, the friend who had got me the additional one, was having great difficulty with those he had bought, so late last week I visited him to have a look and see whether I could apply the same remedial action I had given mine.

We spent a lot of time with eyes at track level adjusting the tip of the frog Vee but still couldn’t get good running. Eventually we decided that the gap between the check rail opposite the Vee was too large at approximately 3.5mm, later to be confirmed that 2.5mm is recommended. A packing shim along the top edge of the check rail might be a solution. Roger found he had some brass channel of various sizes, one of which was a close fit around the rail profile, so we experimented with a length. Some slots are necessary to allow it to fit over the chairs, but it works.

Today he brought me a length and I have made the modification to my new style point:-
It may not be pretty but it improves running through the point.

A much tidier solution would be if we could persuade the manufacturer to reduce the gap.

There seems to be something different about the geometry of the newly issued point which makes the running inferior to that of the earlier version but we could not see what,

Phil

Roger and I had a running session on Wednesday, two live steam engines pulling rakes of coaches chased each other round the circuit. Bella, the cat, thought it was great fun, and at one stage was sprawled on the curve at one end as Russell raced towards her until jumping down at the very last second! She later discovered an ideal viewing platform in the yew hedge where she was safe and above the action.

I realised that it is a long time since I have had the two scenic sections out. The shunting puzzle was at a local show last weekend and has an existence away from the garden, however the other station is rarely used. Sudden brainwave yesterday morning, why not dismantle it and use the track to put a permanent feature in the space it occasionally occupied? Timber was ordered in the afternoon and delivered this morning. A day of carpentry and this is the stage at close of play today:-

Phil

I can't see the rail gap issue being fixed - they'd have to make new moulds..

After a few months' weathering, your solution will blend right in.

Hi Phil,

I'm pretty impressed with Cliff Barkers products. I've made about a dozen turnouts using his components. Although my running has been (very!) limited I've had little trouble apart from a gauge issue at one of the crossing noses. I think it was a 1 in 10 crossing. The crossing had crept over very slightly due to some poor workmanship on my part. A fine shim behind the chair jaw of the nose chair cured it (I've assembled my crossings using chairs chopped and glued to hold the wings and vee in place). Gauge is everything at a crossing and most importantly the check gauge. Even in 12" to the foot scale this can be a problem. Full size issues normally result in excessive wear to the nose rather than derailment - but it's happened! I notice the original photo had a built up vee with separate point and splice rails soldered together (as do mine) but the newer one has a solid, one piece vee. I wonder if that could affect gauging at the nose.

I've just been and checked my turnouts and the flangeway is measuring at 3mm, using Cliffs standard check chairs; the track gauge is set at 32mm. A possible solution would be to allow the track gauge to widen by 1mm to make the check gauge right.

Gauge in turnouts in any scale can be a right faff - be thankful it's not a double slip!

SVLR Andrew

Thanks Andrew,

I accept what you say about the cliff Barker track that you have used and points you have made.

I prefer the original style as, as you say, the crossing Vee is made by soldering two pieces of rail together and that end of the structure is more rigid than in the new version. Then rail profile is more prototypical than in the Peco track. I think the Peco points are more rugged. There is a price difference when buying, which may be a significant factor. Pros and cons.

In my next post you will see a live steam train running in the normal direction for the layout. When running in reverse I found another point issue where there is a distinct lack of alignment between the switch rail and fixed one in one position, this will need some work to improve.

Ho hum,

Phil

When I bought the Pickering coaches of the WLLR at Stoneleigh last year, the very good friend who was with me said something like 'of course you'll need a live steam Earl or Countess to pull them".



I think this marks the last of my purchases of live steam locos!

Phil

Back to the replacement of 'Yr Orsaf Newydd' of the title.

Before lunch today I finished screwing down the boards of the new area. The trackwork from the portable boards had been removed over the previous two days by soaking the ballast in water and prising it up once the PVA softened enough. Soggy ballast was largely pushed out. It was left in a tray of water overnight in the hope that the remnants would just fall away. Ha! Brushing, scraping etc. after lunch got it mostly cleaned up, the weathering on the sleepers was left.

Time then to start relaying on the new boards. I could move the point which had been right at one end a bit further away. The new boards are 8' long whereas the portable ones were 7' so the station loop can be longer as can the head shunt and adjacent siding, which can now become another steam up point.

This is where things stand at the end of play this afternoon:-
It took quite a while to devise and make a connection between the Cliff Barker track and Peco which was what I am re-using. Eventually I got to:-

Peco rail is about 0.7 mm taller than CB rail and the track is wider in section. But the CB track has deeper sleepers so the surface of the rail is about 1mm higher than the Peco when side by side. The remains of the length of brass channel Roger had given me sprang to mind. It seems to be 1/8" outside width. It will slide onto CB rail but not Peco, but filing the foot of the Peco rail down allows a fit. The channel can be bent in towards the web with the jaws of a pair of pincers quite tidily. If the base of the channel is tight against the bottom of the Peco section, the CB track is allowed to float so the the surfaces are level and the first Peco sleeper is packed with 1.5mm plastikard and some solder run in a solid result is achieved with good running across!

Phil

gilfachphil wrote: ↑Sun Aug 17, 2025 6:46 pm When I bought the Pickering coaches of the WLLR at Stoneleigh last year, the very good friend who was with me said something like 'of course you'll need a live steam Earl or Countess to pull them".



I think this marks the last of my purchases of live steam locos!

Phil

Nicely controlled Phil, running really great mastering live stream does give one a lot of satisfaction.

Thanks Rod,

having gained some experience with Roundhouse locos using aircraft type controllers I was reticent about entering the Accucraft arena but then I spotted this one on the GRS site and made an impulsive decision! Having recently been diagnosed as in the early stage of Parkinson’s it was a case of the best time to do it was now.

Reading the instructions it was clear I needed a top up bottle before lighting up, luckily I could borrow one from a friend nearby so the scene was set. This loco has the Fosworks system installed. I have enjoyed the joystick method of driving as it gives a close relationship with the regulator, small changes being made frequently in response to the variations of track etc. The rotary knob for the regulator feels more like driving a battery powered engine but meant it was not difficult to film the first run.

It is certainly a powerful and smooth running engine and in lovely condition. Tick!

Phil

gilfachphil wrote: ↑Mon Aug 18, 2025 7:51 am Thanks Rod,

having gained some experience with Roundhouse locos using aircraft type controllers I was reticent about entering the Accucraft arena but then I spotted this one on the GRS site and made an impulsive decision! Having recently been diagnosed as in the early stage of Parkinson’s it was a case of the best time to do it was now.

Reading the instructions it was clear I needed a top up bottle before lighting up, luckily I could borrow one from a friend nearby so the scene was set. This loco has the Fosworks system installed. I have enjoyed the joystick method of driving as it gives a close relationship with the regulator, small changes being made frequently in response to the variations of track etc. The rotary knob for the regulator feels more like driving a battery powered engine but meant it was not difficult to film the first run.

It is certainly a powerful and smooth running engine and in lovely condition. Tick!

Phil

Sad to hear about your diagnosis Phil, crap really does come to the good ones

It’s good that you have some little variations in your track Phil, it makes for better running in my opinion and little experience in live steam, to many people what to achieve a perfectly smooth level track. Have you seen any perfectly straight smooth track with no dips or leaning anywhere, I certainly haven’t. You will notice that in shutting yards, what ever was going over points they are invariably going slower.

Anyway enjoy your live steam journey, though running a few battery powered trains are good to. I always enjoy running Anne’s Perfect World Tram with the steamer.

gilfachphil wrote: ↑Sun Aug 17, 2025 6:46 pm 'of course you'll need a live steam Earl or Countess to pull them".

This was very correct. I love this train. Favourite coaches with a favourite loco.

I think this marks the last of my purchases of live steam locos!

We will see how this prediction lasts

gilfachphil wrote: ↑Mon Aug 18, 2025 7:51 am Having recently been diagnosed as in the early stage of Parkinson’s it was a case of the best time to do it was now.

Very sorry to hear this Phil. Tough news.

Thanks Rod and Simon

That's very sad news Phil, I'm so sorry to hear that.
Make every day count and enjoy the moment.

Thanks Peter,

I will do, hence the new locomotive!

Phil

Yr Orsaf Newydd Mk2 is nearly finished. There is now plenty of room to run round three Isle of man coaches:-
Phil

A great addition to the line, Phil.

Rik

Very tidy solution to differing rail profiles! I never thought of soldering - but then again, half of my rail is aluminium..

And the station yard is really shaping up. Love the shade of green on "Anna".

Old Man Aaron wrote: ↑Fri Aug 22, 2025 5:53 am Very tidy solution to differing rail profiles! I never thought of soldering

I deliberately ordered a few yards of N/S from CB when I bought the track as I wanted, at various places, to solder the ail ends to copper clad circuit board - not dreaming that one day I would want to join to some Peco track!

Phil

Looking good Phil

I don’t seem to be getting any notifications from your thread Phil for some reason. Not to worry I have now and you have done a great job on the new edition of your line, so much more can be done with it now. Looks really professional.