The Leawarra Nayook Railway

[philipy]

That is phenominal Grant. I'm awestruck.

[Peter Butler]

Absolutely superb Grant, I do hope any visitors are able to see all of the effort you have lavished on this small part of your infrastructure. If all of your buildings are treated the same way you should be near completion in another 50 years or so.......

[Soar Valley Light]

Grant, I'm lost for words!

[tom_tom_go]

You are a very patient man Grant to model to that level, excellent work!

[LNR]

Thanks Tom, but having just watched a video of a bloke shunting his loco and inertia wagon with remotely operated points and un-coupling, I think there are a lot of examples of patience on this forum.
Grant.

[LNR]

Just finished building, painting, and weathering a second and better dwarf signal for No. 2 road.



This one has the weighted lever lying parallel to the track. More rodding, cranks and wire guides to be made.
Grant.

[LNR]

A final shot of the down end of Leawarra yard, showing the two dwarf signals in position along with their relevant operating rodding and wires.



That's it for now, it really screams at me that the home signal is in the wrong place. Might have to experiment with a very short post at the end of the platform where it should be, and see how many times I bump into it operating an engine.
Grant.

[IanC]

Hi Grant,

The home signal can act as a starter and/or section signal so it's function for me would help determine it's location. It can be both.

As it's your railway local rules can apply

Ian

[LNR]

Thanks Ian, given your profile that's re-assuring. My problem (with a certain ignorance of signals) is that to control a train out of roads 2 or 3 requires clearance from a dwarf, and the home departure/starting signal. A train out of 1 road only requires the home off. Therefore home off and dwarf off could imply to a driver on 1 road that he's free to go because he can't see that a dwarf is also off.
My railway as you say, but I do aim to do things correctly.
Grant.

[IanC]

Oh dear What have I put in my profile that incriminates me?

I'm not a signal engineer or expert so I am happy to be corrected by those with knowledge of the subject.

If it were my railway I would have a starter at the platform end as it would appear you have ground signals in the sidings. This would prevent any conflicting moves. i.e. a train being allowed to depart from the platform at the same time as one from a siding. I would also have a section signal at the start of the single line. This can be part way along, but the key for me would be that it is sited at least as far from the starter as the longest train you will have. The reason for this is in case the starter is off but the section signal isn't. From an operating point of view it would not be good to stop trains partly in the paltform as passengers would be tempted to get on or off.

I assume shunting will take place in the sidings? If trains need to proceed up to the section signal a small sign reading shunt limit can be placed somewhere if necessary.

Having said this, we don't have real passengers so it's not too important about signal locations. The reason for signals is for the safe operation of trains. If this is kept in mind then in my mind, placement of signals can be worked out with a degree of authenticity.

Ian

[LNR]

Ian, definitely nothing to incriminate.
I had mentioned before that I had put the home at the end of the platform temporarily, but as I drive my steam locos manually, I kept running into the signal and knocking it over with my arm. Hence its position down at the footbridge.
Grant.

[Big Jim]

Very impressive.
I find that many of your photos manage to catch the atmosphere so well, it is almost as if some one has just walked out of shot. The exterior shots of the line are a great example of 'is it real or is it a model?'
keep up the good work.

[LNR]

Thanks for the kind words Jim, a certain realism has always been my aim.
Glad to see your interest in another steam loco for your fleet. I've always liked "Russell", and it was the inspiration for my homebuilt Hunslet.
Grant.

[GTB]

My problem (with a certain ignorance of signals) is that to control a train out of roads 2 or 3 requires clearance from a dwarf, and the home departure/starting signal. A train out of 1 road only requires the home off.  Therefore home off and dwarf off could imply to a driver on 1 road that he's free to go because he can't see that a dwarf is also off.

Assuming that the LNR rules and regs are based on the VR ones for single line working.......

If two drivers attempt to depart the yard simultaneously, at least one of them will find himself in very deep brown stuff. No matter what signals are off, only one driver can have the staff (or the ticket) necessary to leave the station and enter the next section. Or the train order, if the LNR uses train order working.

If one train is to follow the other, the first will have the ticket and the second won't be given the staff until the next staff station confirms the arrival of the train and sends line clear. The signal won't be pulled off for the second train until line clear is given by the next station and the driver has been given the staff.

If the signalman has given the ticket to one driver, given the staff to the other at the same time, then pulled off the starter, he'll be lucky if his next job is cleaning those station toilets the LNR management are promising.........

UK readers need to know that the Board of Trade and it's railway inspectors had no writ in Aust. where the state railway systems were self-regulating and wrote their own book of rules. Here in Victoria the safeworking systems were British on the surface, but with some local variations thrown in, plus a few US practices for good measure.

Regards,
Graeme

[pippindoo]

What? No interlocking?? Hell's teeth man!  :shock:

Its great the level of detail thats put in to enjoy the hobby to its fullest. All marvellous stuff, love it! Im suprised not to see detonators and flags in the signal box though...

Pipp, (retired) 31 years train driving, 5 years instructing/ assessing.  ;)

[IanC]

My problem (with a certain ignorance of signals) is that to control a train out of roads 2 or 3 requires clearance from a dwarf, and the home departure/starting signal. A train out of 1 road only requires the home off.  Therefore home off and dwarf off could imply to a driver on 1 road that he's free to go because he can't see that a dwarf is also off.

Assuming that the LNR rules and regs are based on the VR ones for single line working.......

If two drivers attempt to depart the yard simultaneously, at least one of them will find himself in very deep brown stuff. No matter what signals are off, only one driver can have the staff (or the ticket) necessary to leave the station and enter the next section. Or the train order, if the LNR uses train order working.

If one train is to follow the other, the first will have the ticket and the second won't be given the staff until the next staff station confirms the arrival of the train and sends line clear. The signal won't be pulled off for the second train until line clear is given by the next station and the driver has been given the staff.

If the signalman has given the ticket to one driver, given the staff to the other at the same time, then pulled off the starter, he'll be lucky if his next job is cleaning those station toilets the LNR management are promising.........

UK readers need to know that the Board of Trade and it's railway inspectors had no writ in Aust. where the state railway systems were self-regulating and wrote their own book of rules. Here in Victoria the safeworking systems were British on the surface, but with some local variations thrown in, plus a few US practices for good measure.

Regards,
Graeme

It's my understanding that with station limits working one or more movements could occur simultaneously, hence the need for signals. The 'ticket' or 'train staff' would only prevent two trains entering the same single line section. Of course there's nothing to suggest that the ticket method could not be extended to station limits and the signals being used to give an indication of rout only. To prevent conflicting movements signals would normally be interlocked as Pippindoo suggests.

Ian

[Soar Valley Light]

Blimey! Here's a topic that could run for miles and miles. It has been stated, it largely down to the individual railway (16mm/ft or 12"/ft) as to what signalling is provided, where it is provided and how it is used to convey information. That's one of the reason we have Rules and Regulations.

The bottom line to all this though is that the workmanship Grant has demonstrated and the railway he has created are of the highest and finesty standard. Something the likes of me can only aspire to.

Well done Grant, please keep the updates coming.

[LNR]

Graeme,
thanks for reminding me about staff and ticket working (told you I am not that conversant with signalling) I might even be able to sleep know with the signal where it is.
Pipp,
flags and detonators in the rack in front of the levers. the green one is behind the red, it's normally in view. Interlocking is still in the melting pot.



Grant.
PS Andrew, thank you off to work on staff locking the signal.

[GTB]

What? No interlocking?? Hell's teeth man!  :shock:

"We're not in Kansas anymore....." This is Oz mate.

Each state system in Aust. was different and I'm only familiar with Victorian operating practices, but that is where Grant and I live and where our railways 'might have been' located.

The VR only installed interlocked signalling in heavily trafficked areas like suburban lines, double track mainlines and major country stations and junctions. The majority of VR country stations weren't interlocked, a lot didn't even have signals.

The VR treated the ng lines like any other lightly trafficked branch line, no interlocking, a minimum of fixed signals and all were staff and ticket worked. There was usually only one train at a time on the line and rarely more than three trains a week, so the cost of interlocking installation and maintenance wasn't justified. These were pioneer lines, built at minimum cost to open up the area they served.

Fixed signalling on the ng lines was limited to just home signals at the junction, the terminus and any staff stations. The nearest thing to interlocking was to point lock the home signals, which prevented the signal from being pulled off until the facing point blades were locked.

There was nothing except the rule book preventing both home signals at a staff station being off at the same time.

All train working within a ng station yard was carried out by the SM (station master), or an ASM (assistant station master), acting as shunters if they were on duty, or the train guards if they weren't. Train movements within a yard would be controlled by flags and hand signals in daylight and by hand lamps at night.

I'm sure HM's Railway Inspectorate would have been reduced to gibbering wrecks if confronted with any Aust. branch line, let alone the VR ng lines, but there were few accidents, as the traffic was light and speeds were low.

Regards,
Graeme

[GTB]

It's my understanding that with station limits working one or more movements could occur simultaneously, hence the need for signals.

I can't get my head around the concept of having every possible move in a yard controlled by a signal system using victorian era mechanical technology. I have no idea of what was done in the UK, but even Melbourne Yard didn't have that many signals.

At most locations on the VR yard movements were controlled by shunters (or guards) using hand signals, instead of signalmen using fixed signals. Loco crews stayed put until told by a shunter what the next move was to be and were given the correct hand signal.

It was part of the shunters job to talk to each other to prevent conflicting moves and the loco crew were expected to keep their eyes open as well.

As Andrew says, different railways have different ways of doing things.

Graeme