Where Would "The Vicster" Want The Signal?

[IrishPeter]

Folks,

The midway passing loop on my line is approached in the 'up' direction by a steep falling gradient (1 in 25) which creates a bit of a problem with my freer running locomotives.  My Accys pull up in time when the signal is on, but 'Millie' consistently over runs into the loop by about a carriage length.  

My solution is to move the signal back 100-150 scale yards, so that the train is brought to a stand at the top of the steepest part of the gradient.   It also has the advantage that with the improved sighting I can eliminate the distant signal as per the usual Light Railway drill.

Questions are:

Would the Vicster (i.e. Mr Victor Isle, HM's Inspector of Garden Railways) let me get away with this?

Or am I guilty of three-legged thinking given that the IMR signals are usually placed a fair distance short of the loop?  However, IMR regulations are archaic, so the signal acts more like a distant. If it is "on" you have to stop before the object being protected, then you will be flagged when it is safe to do so.  On my line signals are understood in the mainland manner.

Cheers,
Peter in AZ

[Dr. Bond of the DVLR]

Being no signal expert I wouldn't really know, one thing I do know is that you'd get away with anything at the moment as Mr. Isle has gone missing again!

[IrishPeter]

I moved the blankety-blank loop to the next reasonably flat bit, and altered the station at the bottom of Suicide Hill into a small intermediate station. The new site, whilst still on a grade, is shallow enough that trains will slow to a stand if the boards are on. This also has the benefit of taking anything too interesting away from public view. Likewise, I am going to tuck the junction with the rest of the world at the back of a shrubbery. Beyond that the retaining wall, and the fence on top of that should ensure a reasonable degree of privacy/security.

Peter in AZ

[Soar Valley Light]

Well, this just goes to prove the old modellers adage that there is a prototype for everything.

I believe it is Terry Essery in his books 'Saltley Firing Days' (Very well worth a read) who describes the descent of freight trains down the Lickey bank. It seems a goodly proportion of these ran away on a regular basis, despite all the pinning down and/or dropping of brakes at Blackwell. He describes the facing points on the Down at Bromsgrove as the best maintained facing points on the Midland, such was the need for them to cope with speeding frieghts running onto the loop.

It may be prototypical but is perhaps one aspect of railway operation we maybe don 't want to perpetuate! Moving your home signal back and some judicious alterations to the track layout sound like they were the most sensible solution to your problem.

[Keith S]

I'm fairly sure you don't need to worry about it; I have a feeling Mr. Isle died alone, a long time ago. Not sure Her Majesty has appointed his replacement at this time. You're probably better off just to follow current full-size practice; that is, ignore the signaling issue, make all of your little scale trainmen wear plastic reflective orange vests, hire some "safety" consultants with no industry experience, and make a lot of speeches about how your (model) employees are your greatest asset and safety your highest priority before making a whole load of them redundant and then voting in favour of larger bonuses for yourself and the rest of the board of directors.

[OldMetaller]

I'm fairly sure you don't need to worry about it; I have a feeling Mr. Isle died alone, a long time ago. Not sure Her Majesty has appointed his replacement at this time. You're probably better off just to follow current full-size practice; that is, ignore the signaling issue, make all of your little scale trainmen wear plastic reflective orange vests, hire some "safety" consultants with no industry experience, and make a lot of speeches about how your (model) employees are your greatest asset and safety your highest priority before making a whole load of them redundant and then voting in favour of larger bonuses for yourself and the rest of the board of directors.

Also Keith, in full-size practice you would have to sack the driver when he couldn't stop his train at the badly-placed signal. Not that I'm cynical or anything...

[Soar Valley Light]

Sadly that's probably closer to the truth than is comfortable these days. It never used to be so though. I remember many of the old hand drivers I've known telling me tales of trains sliding by signals, only for the signal box window to slide open and a rather vexed signalman 'invite' the errant driver to 'depart rapidly' on his journey!

On the even smaller narrow gauge railways I'm sure things were even more casual.

[IrishPeter]

There's an old Isle of Man Railway story about a crew running back to Ramsey in evening at the end of a 12 or 14 hour shift.

They are on the long straight section east of Sulby Bridge, and suddenly the fireman sights a red light, and alerts the driver, who, not seeing the adverse signal, replies "What red light?"

The fireman repeats his assertion, and gets the same reply from the driver. Then stealing a glance at his mate the driver says,

"Take your fag out your mouth. Is the red light still there?"

"No!" comes the reply.

Strangely the adverse signal had disappeared.

Even on the modern IMR there are some signals that are awkward to sight. The down Port Soderick is planted on top of a cutting wall so it can be seen over an O/B. The carriage shed shunt signal is difficult to find as well. At night you have to know the route to know if the clear aspect will be green or white! At least there are no cautions to confuse the issue!


Cheers,
+Peter in AZ