best mods for mamods and mss locos

Lner fan Sam · Post by **Lner fan Sam** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:08 pm

Hi there

as some of already know i am getting (hopefully) for Christmas a mss steam loco kit. the kit will be built in a rather comprehensive workshop. To make the loco run better I will be making and modifying existing pieces of the kit. I will also be buying in upgrades like the better steam regulator and higher pressure safety valve.

When buying in the upgrades which ones should I get?

and also would lapping and countersinking the pistons make them perform better?

I also have "big plans" for this loco which i will be revealing later.

cheers Sam

Chris Cairns · Post by **Chris Cairns** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:40 pm

Sam,

As I posted in your 'New to the forum' Topic I have documented the building of an MSS loco kit here - http://gardenrails.myfreeforum.org/about6201.html It has been produced as an illustrated PDF file and I also have a copy of the 16mm Association Mamod e-handbook. A PM request will get you a copy of these.

Due to the cheap machining of the cylinders and reverser lever these will both need lapping to reduce steam leaks. For lapping I use 1200 grade wet & dry sandpaper which I soak with light oil and work the piece back & forth in the same direction till it is smooth, then one sweep at 90 degrees to the previous direction to form an oil trap.

Taking the stock MSS kit my suggestions for improvement: -

1. A new burner. The supplied solid fuel burner is very limited in performance, plus the tablets stink as well. So a good meths burner or gas burner will increase steam performance. Note that the boiler is soft soldered so use of a gas burner can cause damage (I've highlighted the weak point on the bottom of the soft soldered boiler in my MSS Build Topic). You may be able to pick up one 2nd hand, otherwise the only trader is Dream Steam (do not buy the one from Chasteam, Manor Models Railways, Model Enthusiasts or the same model from eBay as it is a poor design). You may still be able to get one of the improved meths burner from Forum member Gremlin - see here http://gardenrails.myfreeforum.org/abou ... highlight=

2. High Pressure Safety Valve. Having got better steam performance from your replacement burner then fitting a high pressure safety valve will save the extra steam otherwise it all gets released by the 1 Bar MSS safety valve. These are available from Dream Steam & Roy Wood Models.

3. Water Top Up Valve. With your improved steam production you can keep the loco in steam longer by filling the meths burner up and topping up the boiler with more water. Again these are available from Dream Steam & Roy Wood Models.

4. In Cab Regulator. To give finer control of the speed these are a good addition. Available from Dream Steam & Roy Wood Models (awaiting new stock).

5. A Lubricator. The MSS pistons rely on wet steam to lubricate them which leads to early wear. Use of a lubricator will extend their life and make them more free running. 2 types of lubricator available, dead leg lubricator from Dream Steam, or inline lubricator from Roy Wood Models or Roundhouse.

And then you can continue with 'O' ring pistons, replacement steel wheels, silver soldered boilers, etc.

Welcome to the world of Mamodification or MSS-ification!

Chris Cairns.

dougrail · Post by **dougrail** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:31 am

What can we say...depends what your plans are for it to be truthful - if you're going to superboiler it at somepoint, you'd need to replace the SV, reg, water topup etc as the threads are alas not interchangeable. This is what caused me to to go early with getting a 60psi silver soldered boiler for my flagship PPS/DS/Mamod/DLR/Briggs loco.

Lner fan Sam · Post by **Lner fan Sam** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:10 pm

Hi there

thanks for the very comprehensiveness guide to upgrades there Chris. When the build starts I will be using your very good guide to help me.

Regarding for what I want to do with the loco I want it to run as well as your swordbeaker Douglas( which is a big inspiration for this loco) and other locos on this forum ( like britomart and ofario). But also have decent pulling power.

I plan to experiment with the original cylinders by countersinking the steam lines and turning up a new o ring piston head on a lathe. Then I will lap the contact surfaces of the cylinders. I have also have not decided yet weather I will swap the wheels around and have the cylinders connected to the back wheels.( Weather this would improve running I don't really know yet!)

Regarding the boiler I will be making my own boiler for the loco. It will be very similar in design but with a few differences.

So all in all this is going to a hell of a project!

Cheers Sam

Chris Cairns · Post by **Chris Cairns** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:04 pm

Sounds like you should start with an IP Engineering 'Jane' instead. Been 3 on eBay recently - http://www.ebay.co.uk/csc/i.html?_sop=1 ... te=1&rt=nc

Not sure exactly what you mean by countersinking the steam lines? The 16mm Mamod e-handbook recommends enlarging the steam holes in the chassis and chamfering the corresponding holes on the side of the reverser valve block - both of which I did on my MSS build.

'O' ring piston upgrade kits are available from Dream Steam, and I have a set of Mike Chaney's Mamod 'O' ring piston upgrade kit available (not seen an MSS piston 'in the flesh' but I assume it is the same assembly as the old Mamod ones).

Of course if you fit 'O' ring pistons then you will also need a lubricator as well.

Using the rear axle as the driving axle has been done before, but you will need to make new chassis frames as the alignment, and thus the port timing, for the cylinders will be wrong with the standard chassis holes aligned for driving the front axle.

Building a new boiler is very ambitious. Look forward to hearing and seeing more on that in due course.

Chris Cairns.

Lner fan Sam · Post by **Lner fan Sam** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:12 pm

Hi Chris

sorry about the confusion with the steam lines, steam ports is a better name for them! Also I meant chamfering when talking about countersinking. Just shows how much of an novice I am to this.

Also thanks for the info on the "swapping of the wheels around". You have saved me alot of bother there Chris.

On the boiler front it will be very similar to dreamsteam boilers but instead of the sight glass being to the left hand side it will on the middle off the boiler. on the bottom joint of the sight glass there will be a steam valve that will function as a " blowdown valve" and also to check where the water level is. The second feature is on the underside of the boiler there will be 2-3 small copper tubes with water inside them to increase the surface heating area of the boiler.

Also I will be going for an in line lubricator for the loco.

Chris Cairns · Post by **Chris Cairns** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:21 pm

The majority of the after market boilers produced for the old Mamod SL locos used 5mm sight glass tube which suffers from air bubbles forming leading to inaccurate indications. The recommended solution for that is to put a piece of copper wire inside the tube to break down the surface tension of the water.

Mike Chaney produced a direct replacement boiler for the Mamod SL loco which is silver soldered, has the sight glass tube mounted at the rear in the centre, and uses 6mm tubing which suffers less from air bubbles. I have one in my workshop with a modified SL1K project.

Your reheat tubes are currently used by Mamod on their boilers fitted to the William II & Mark I & II locos. They actually extend inside on one end up towards the top of the boiler. I assume they work by actually causing the water to cycle around the boiler.

Chris Cairns.

dougrail · Post by **dougrail** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:15 am

Your ideas intrigue me very much.

My engine 'Swordbreaker' has a PPS 'Janet' 60psi boiler and is designed differently from Dream Steam's. A sublte difference is thickness - mine is ever so slightly thicker than DS's which means it needs more heat initially [a meths burner would not do the trick...!!] and also adds more weight to the working loco.

Chris, copper wire, what sire of copper wire are we talking?

Chris Cairns · Post by **Chris Cairns** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:42 am

Doug,

Just searched on-line for your answer. The wire method (copper or brass) came from the Unofficial Mamod Forums but no specific size mentioned - I use the single strand copper wire that is used in 10 amp lighting circuits (also good for checking for any blockage in steam pipes provided they do not have too many complicated bends).

On the 16mmNGM Yahoo group it is mentioned to use 1mm brass rod - ask our very own Zach as he mentioned there that he has fitted some to his Millie.

Chris Cairns.

PS - The PPS Janet was originally fitted with a meths burner!

Lner fan Sam · Post by **Lner fan Sam** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:17 pm

Hi again.

thanks for the info on air bubbles forming in the sight glass. I was originally going for 5 mm tubing but following your advise I will now go go 6 mm. The reheat tubes will extend up through in side the boiler like mamods boilers.

referring to your boiler Douglas how thick is the copper in your boiler?

Also the loco will be fueled by meths following the success that britomart and ofario have had with meths. I believe that your loco is fueled by gas Douglas is hat correct.

sam

Spule 4 · Post by **Spule 4** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:31 pm

I have used the copper wire trick...it does seem to help slightly.

Good luck!

bessytractor · Post by **bessytractor** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:53 pm

I think I know what you mean by "chamfering the ports". This is something I have done for people including Doug.

dougrail · Post by **dougrail** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:25 pm

Agreed with what BT said - when SB but was steel and pieces, early on I bought the cyls and reverser from DS and PPS respectively. Realising the engine was to be completed a long way off, I got the cyls done by BT.

Engine doesn't run as fast now [proven when it did the Llechfan Olympics..while all the other engines acted like children, SB was like "Nope...nope...takin' my time, enjoying the stroll..."] but then got its revenge at the Heavy Haul

To be fair, if you're going all the way like Britomart, Swordbreaker, Ogwen etc LNERSam, you may as well go for a RWM Janet or s/h, a PPS Janet / IPE Jane and go a-modding from there.

Afterall, you get the MSS loco, give it the reg, higher SV, water topup, lubricator, all for the 1/4 x 26tpi -to fit the brass boiler system, all these will need to be replaced with the coming of the [likely inevitable?] silver soldered boiler.

On the other hand, there's a certain charm with upgrading and sticking with the standard/brass boiler system provided it works....just make sure all your steampipes are tensionlocked..!!

DLRdan · Post by **DLRdan** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:08 am

I have never had to alter the ports in anyway on my locos but if you do decide to do it, please go and find Bessytractor's guide on how to do it propperly. I have seen a coupe of mamods this year that the owners tried this on and basically joined the port holes up so all the steam went straight out the chimney. The mods I always do are a meths burner top up valve and better acting safety valve. A propperly set up meths burner will give a huge amount of heat and very little smell. The better acting safetly valve is a more for keeping the loco clean, the standard one just fizzes everywhere. My three mamods are very reliable and have varing degrees of mods. I have never had a problem from the standard boiler and the highest pressure of my 3 is 26 PSI which i have always found gives more than enough power, those who saw Robin at Elsecar know this. Again, I have not had problems with the standard cylinders other than wear which does happen after prolonged useage. I would definatly recomend a lubricator of some sort what ever cylinders or pistons you have.

dougrail · Post by **dougrail** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:46 pm

Having seen Robin in action I was quite impressed as well.

In short Sam, it depends on your plans long term.

Lner fan Sam · Post by **Lner fan Sam** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:09 pm

Thanks for the superb advice you have giving me about the do and donts on mamods.

A Janet isn't really a viable option for me as the cost for me is to high so I can't afford one(15 year old here).

Secondly I really want to make a kit loco and tinker with it to make it to my tastes. I have been interested in trains all of my life and this is going to be my first stab at owning a steam engine. Pioneer (my engine) will be built in a very comprehensive workshop with the technical nohow to help me.

Cheers Sam

dougrail · Post by **dougrail** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:31 am

Now you remind me ofhow I started out two and a half years ago.

Except I was 24, not well at all and with zero live steam / engineering experience whatsoever.

This is what I started out with...

Spule 4 · Post by **Spule 4** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:03 am

Doug, I have always wanted to know, what is the tank under the footplate, just a detail item or is it some sort of functional item?

Chris Cairns · Post by **Chris Cairns** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:28 am

Having seen Robin in action I was quite impressed as well.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4NtQ3WVnMs[/video]

Chris Cairns.

DLRdan · Post by **DLRdan** » Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:03 pm

That was from last year, this year was the great slate wagon extravaganza.

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best mods for mamods and mss locos

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