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Chris Cairns
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Post by Chris Cairns » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:53 am

Narrow Minded wrote:it aint gonna look pretty
I'm sure it will be a lot better than my first attempt with a gas solder torch some years ago - my previous experience had been using several different electric soldering irons but these are generally ineffective for repairs on Mamod brass work.

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This is actually one of the silver soldered boilers that Mamod produced at the end of the original railway system and I was trying to build it up around the steam dome insert - left the solder on for too long and it just flowed and flowed and flowed!

I assume that you are talking about the tube through the middle of the boiler through which the steam pipe goes up into the steam dome nut. In my experience all my boilers have been fitted with a thick walled tube/pipe there which has had the bottom end machined so it just sticks out proud below the boiler (i.e. there is no gland as such or a rivet as others have previously thought). Thus there is very little contact with the boiler on the inside and that solder paste joint is a very common failure even when using solid fuel tablets (it is right above the middle fire tube on the common 3 wick meths burners).

If you recall back in my MSS Kit build Topic I showed how I had improved that joint by scrapping away a small amount of the paint around the joint, roughening up the surface, applying flux and then getting the solder to stick. You will end up with too much solder there to start with to get an effective seal but it can be cleaned up with filing and fine wet and dry sandpaper.

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Here is my workshop donor boiler. This was an old SL riveted boiler won on eBay which I totally paint stripped, soldered the steam dome insert, soldered in 2 x 6BA nuts at the front to replace the method of using posidrive screws with 6BA screws, soldered in 2 x 6BA screws into the rivet holes on the boiler back to allow the sight glass/boiler back plate to be held in using 6BA washers & nuts, and soldered up that weak joint on the bottom of the boiler.

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I cleaned up that solder again by using files and fine wet and dry sandpaper plus lots of polishing and this boiler is very steam tight. I've also read elsewhere that removing the paint from the boiler underside increases the efficiency of heat transfer from your burner to the boiler.
dougrail wrote:anyone got a spare brass boiler back plate?
There has been an unusually large presence of Mamod railway items on evilBay recently including a few of these back plates. Otherwise there are several traders on-line who sell them as MSS spare parts.

Chris Cairns.

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Post by Lner fan Sam » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:17 pm

Nice one doug!!!

When will the running trails take place(also when they do I think we would like some video!) :D

Is that is for the livery?
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Post by Narrow Minded » Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:09 am

Chris Cairns:78108 wrote:I assume that you are talking about the tube through the middle of the boiler through which the steam pipe goes up into the steam dome nut. In my experience all my boilers have been fitted with a thick walled tube/pipe there which has had the bottom end machined so it just sticks out proud below the boiler (i.e. there is no gland as such or a rivet as others have previously thought). Thus there is very little contact with the boiler on the inside and that solder paste joint is a very common failure even when using solid fuel tablets (it is right above the middle fire tube on the common 3 wick meths burners).
That's the one Chris ;)
a) the tube would be easier to solder than the gland, and
b) once done, the tube would act as a "radiant" carrying heat away from the joint when it's exposed to the burner flame.
I have a sneaking suspicion that it's going to need silver soldering :?
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Post by Chris Cairns » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:15 am

Internet wrote:Mamod boilers themselves are made of a good grade of quality brass, and are soft soldered together with a high melting point soft solder (Pewter grade), not silver solder.

The reason for this is that silver soldering brass sheet risks burning up the zinc content, and rendering the brass brittle, or even porous,if wildly overheated.

Once Brass has been soft soldered, it cannot then be silver soldered, the lead contaminates the surface, and silver soldering cannot take to the metal properly.
I use a silver bearing plumbers soft solder but the surfaces need to be very clean and abraded for it to hold.

I'm not understanding this gland that you are mentioning - any photos?

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Post by Narrow Minded » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:33 am

Sorry Chris - I should have taken a photo while I had it de-soldered and cleaned off prior to fitting. It's currently just a solder blob with a pipe sticking out of it's middle :lol:

I'll be putting the sight glass back in today and checking for leaks, if it fails I'll do a full strip-down before trying again so there may well be a photo opportunity (failing that I'll sketch it!) ;)
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Post by dougrail » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:08 am

Please don't tell meyou've been up all night with the boiler mate :shock: but if it's worked, then wow :D:D

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Post by Chris Cairns » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:31 am

No problem Greg. I am just intrigued about that gland as this was originally a riveted boiler back plate. Sounds like someone had problems with that leaky joint and effected a non-standard repair, however they left the riveted back plate fitted waiting for the sight glass plastic to fail I guess.

I hope you have one of the new Mamod oval seals for the sight glass or the thicker 'O' ring I sent Doug, as the stock 'O' rings are just not thick enough to get a good seal.

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Post by Spule 4 » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:00 pm

Chris Cairns:78180 wrote:
I hope you have one of the new Mamod oval seals for the sight glass or the thicker 'O' ring I sent Doug, as the stock 'O' rings are just not thick enough to get a good seal.

Chris Cairns.
What were the specs of the thicker O ring Chris?

Is there a way to buy the thicker oval rings in bulk from Mamod?

Thanks!
Garrett

"Some say that Mamods have problems.  Whatever. I view them as opportunities for improvement."

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Post by Chris Cairns » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:41 pm

Garrett,

Sadly the 'O' ring came in a box of 'O' rings from a local hardware shop but there are no sizes on the box.

Using my basic micrometer it is about 7/8" O.D. and a thickness of 3/32".

I'm sure if there was enough interest here on the Forum one of us could order the oval seals from Mamod and then send them on (Doug could go on another local visit). They are not available on the Mamod website and they seem have problems answering e-mail enquiries at present (I got one of my answers via Mike Wakefield's recent visit to Mamod).

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Last edited by Chris Cairns on Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Lner fan Sam » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:01 pm

On a note for a slightly different engine in your fleet doug, I see that your swordbreaker stared in the second part of the bbc golden age of railways!!

If you don't believe me see it for yourself on the bbc four section of the bbc iplayer.

Even got a nice big part!!
my first live steam engine build thread:
http://gardenrails.myfreeforum.org/about6685.html

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Post by dougrail » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:06 pm

Lner fan Sam:78211 wrote:On a note for a slightly different engine in your fleet doug, I see that your swordbreaker stared in the second part of the bbc golden age of railways!!

If you don't believe me see it for yourself on the bbc four section of the bbc iplayer.

Even got a nice big part!!
EDIT - Just found it. It got about 10 secs screen time, static alas.

I recall the story behind that too...let's just say that like the owner, the engine is camera shy.

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Post by Lner fan Sam » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:40 pm

I would say that it's about thirty to 40 mins into the program. Its went they are discussing about the Keithly and worth valley railway upgrading their track to have a passing loop.

They use a indoor layout with a passing loop and your engine is sitting pride of place just behind the loop.

Also when watching it when they start talking about the railway children's affect on the railway then you know you're close.

Sorry if I am a bit vauge with the hints.

Edit- as soon as I saw her I thought of you would like to know.
my first live steam engine build thread:
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Post by dougrail » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:23 pm

Lner fan Sam:78216 wrote:I would say that it's about thirty to 40 mins into the program. Its went they are discussing about the Keithly and worth valley railway upgrading their track to have a passing loop.

They use a indoor layout with a passing loop and your engine is sitting pride of place just behind the loop.

Also when watching it when they start talking about the railway children's affect on the railway then you know you're close.

Sorry if I am a bit vauge with the hints.

Edit- as soon as I saw her I thought of you would like to know.
Just managed to find it - thaks very much for the headsup Sam :D


There is a story, as I said - had all gone well, it would have been Swordbreaker instead of the beige loco steaming up ;)

Also - Swordbreaker is a he. I know most engines are referred to as she, but there are a few where custodians are definitely sure it's a he - Jerry M at Hollycombe is another. ;)

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Post by Chris Cairns » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:24 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... ching_Out/

Start at 35:57.

Programme is on again tomorrow night at 22:00 on BBC Four.

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Lner fan Sam
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Post by Lner fan Sam » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:36 pm

No problem Doug, even if he wasn't in steam swordbreaker still looked grand sitting there.

Also I will remember that swordbreaker is a he!
my first live steam engine build thread:
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Post by dougrail » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:38 pm

Thanks for the kind comments Sam. :)

However, Swordbreaker isn't finished yet. 'Chance and Starstrider were just the practice runs...;)

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Post by Spule 4 » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:59 pm

Chris Cairns:78220 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... ching_Out/

Start at 35:57.

Programme is on again tomorrow night at 22:00 on BBC Four.

Chris Cairns.
Clicking on the link gets the dreaded message on all BBC content in the US:

"Currently BBC iPlayer TV programmes are available to play in the UK only, but all BBC iPlayer Radio programmes are available to you."

I have always wanted to thank the Beeb (along with EMI) for being sure to protect me from their content. :|
Garrett

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Chris Cairns
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Post by Chris Cairns » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:16 am

Spule4 wrote:I have always wanted to thank the Beeb (along with EMI) for being sure to protect me from their content.
That is why we have to pay an annual £145.50 TV licence fee.

Currently not found a way of screen grabbing video from iPlayer yet. I'm dvd-ing the episode tomorrow night - I'll see if I can copy the appropriate seconds into a viewable video on-line.

Not sure about USA but I know we have the same viewing restriction with the Canada History channel where we cannot view content as it may be screened on Channel 5 (one of our UK Freeview channels) at some point in time.

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Post by Chris Cairns » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:48 am

And to keep our non-UK residents happy, here is an unedited video capture featuring a static Swordbreaker.

<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvid179.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw283%2FCCairns_2007%2FGarden%2520Railways%2520Forum%2FSwordbreaker.mp4">

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Post by Spule 4 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:42 am

Oh yeah, I forgot about that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NmdUcmLFkw

Thanks for capturing the cameo.
Garrett

"Some say that Mamods have problems.  Whatever. I view them as opportunities for improvement."

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