What is the lowest temperature you can run a loco!

[METHSSNIFFER]

Im not a physics bloke but what is the freezing temperatute of meths and butane. Is it safe to run a loco at minus 12!!

[laalratty]

I think you will be into serious problems with a gas fired engine, you probably won't be able to get any gas in let alone light it unless the can was pre warmed, and then the tank warmed (hot water should do the trick with both) I would of thought you would still be ok with butane/propane mix though. Don't know about meths unfortunatly, but I would of thought you would still be ok at -12

[PCLR]

i can run my edrig at -6 but i have problems with gas pressure but good when it's warmed up

[MDLR]

Meths fired locos will run at almost any temperature we'll get in the UK, but it'll obviously take a long time to raise steam outdoors.

[PCLR]

what about wind??

[TommyDodd]

I think you will be into serious problems with a gas fired engine, you probably won't be able to get any gas in let alone light it unless the can was pre warmed,

Simplest way is to pre-warm the lot. Fill up, allow a bit of time for the vented gas to disperse and then spark up indoors, transferring the loco to the track only when the fire's got a good hold.

In theory there should be no lower limit on burning the black stuff. However running on coal is always a delicate balancing act, and a very low ambient temperature can make it just too hard. I saw someone trying to run one on Sunday, a good strong reliable machine, but all the steam it could generate was being used by the blower. Could get 20 on the clock but no higher, and the minute he tried to move (or hand pump a drop of water in) the clock was knocked right back.

[MDLR]

what about wind??

That can be a problem, but Roundhouse (and Mamod) locos did perform fairly well in my sheltered garden - getting them to run well on an exposed location (like overlooking the Helford river, for instance) might be more challenging!

[METHSSNIFFER]

Has anyone invented an internal meths fired loco!

[mhlr]

Has anyone invented an internal meths fired loco!

It's similar to coal fired locos, where the meths combusts in the firebox on a wick burner, and then the boiler has flues down it. Uses a blower etc like coal firing too. Most commonly used nowadays in the Gauge 1 stuff like Aster...

[Dr. Bond of the DVLR]

Tons of locos are internal meths fired, that little doll loco at my model engineering club is internal meths fired- has a blower and everything. It is more comonly seen in gauge 1 models though!

[METHSSNIFFER]

I wonder why it never took off in our areana I suppose gas came like diesel did to steam

[TommyDodd]

I wonder why it never took off in our areana I suppose gas came like diesel did to steam

That's basically it. Back in the 70s when the choice for live steam was basically Archangel or do-it-yourself they made a wide range of internally fired meths engines, as well as a few potboilers. Probably the most popular was Rheidol, an overscale but charming 2-4-0t loosely based on the contractors' Bagnall used on the VoR. It was a single cylinder slip-eccentric machine with a Smithies' boiler (basically a pot-boiler within a cylindrical flame duct which looked like the boiler cladding). The only complications were the need for a blower with associated plumbing and valve, and a hand-pump in the side tank.
Many of the early Archangel designs were noted for high speed and narrow power bands- it may well be they were adapted from parts intended for LBSC and other model engineer designs for standard gauge models- certainly Archangel made G1 SG stuff too. They were and are fun but can be a handful, demanding complete concentration- the combination of a fast manually controlled loco, a "chicken feed" fuel metering arrangement and the slightest track irregularity could spectacular.
It's also worth noting that even 25yrs ago the supply of meths, and the quality, was very hit-and-miss. That plus the perceived difficulty in setting wick burners just right and the banning of asbestos wicks (generally believed to be the best, despite the obvious health and safety drawbacks) meant that spirit firing was commonly believed too temperamental, difficult, dangerous and unforgiving- especially for beginners- and the market drifted rapidly towards gas. Also, as people started to want more and more "scale" appearance for their models, the limitations of having boilers "Any colour you like, as long as its sooty, blistered black" seemed more off-putting, and the only alternatives, "project" or locomotive boilers, would have been very labour intensive to build and so hair-raisingly expensive.
There are still a few of us who dust off the old locos and squirt in the ole' purple pong-juice to make them go every now and then. For me the smell of meths IS the smell of model steam engines, and I'd certainly never part with my Pooter, rebuilt Rheidol or Mamod (my first loco, bought with the proceeds of my first holiday job in 1986).

[Endless, Nameless]

It's very difficult, mostly! If you think about it, a proper internally fired boiler = less water space, so you have to worry about keeping the boiler topped up, crosshead/ eccentric pumps and on board water supply ideally. You've got the hassle of raising steam in the first place- you need an external blower- and then keeping steam up, ideally a blower on the loco. Although the burner is more efficient, you have to manage the loco better.

In short, you end up with a loco that, while more realistic to run, requires considerable attention while running- you have to run the locomotive, not a railway- even more so than is already the case with steam over say electric.

And you pay a lot more for the privelidge.

That said, the Aster 5MT is gorgeous, and I can definitely see why running a loco like that in a realistic manner appeals.

[METHSSNIFFER]

I had a meths fired Lady Anne and now I wish I had kept her. I bet this is a collectable item now. But I needed the money at the time ahhh well!