RC semaphore signalling

[tommygander1941]

That clip of the lattice post signal looks like a very badly adjusted (too tight) signal wire.

The previous shot of the tubular post signal looks like it might have a pretty tight (but not necessarily too tight) wire too. I don't think the bounce is being caused by the signalman taking up the slack then going for it, you often can't see that anyway as it really is only taking up the slack in the wire run. I'd say the bounce on that first shot is due to a very enthusiastic pull by the signalman! (i.e. the arm over travelling and then dropping back slightly). If (as I suspect) it's Arley's up main starter then it's not too far from the box and it would very easy to do that.

There are so many things that can affect how a signal comes off and it can often change during a shift due to temperature variation. DIstance from the box obviously has an effect due to the length of wire that needs hauling in before the arm responds. Signals further away will have wire adjusters to avoid ALL the lever movement being used up in taking in the slack (or the signal being pulled off by a contracting wire overnight!). Use of the adjuster will make subtle changes to how the arm responds. The person on the end of the lever can also have an effect (good or bad) on the way the arm moves.

All this is a very long winded way of saying that, IMHO, there is no right or wrong way for a model signal to come off or go back on; with so many influencing factors it really can be left to a matter of personal choice for the individual modeller.

The only exception to this is if arms are power operated (air or motor), there is much more consistency in that - it's also a good deal easier on the operator. I'm about to spend two days of just such an easy life!

All the best,

SVLR Andrew

I believe the tubular signal is Bishop's Lydeard. And yes I do know that electric or air assisted signals are a lot easier, the inner home signal from the Llangollen direction at Glyndyfrdwy is air assisted and is a lot easier (although you do have to move the lever slowly)

[Soar Valley Light]

Andrew
Am I right in thinking that when a lower quadrant signal returns to danger (on?), it's largely the weight of the counter balance which dictates its movement rather than the signalman controlling it? Does the signalman tend to let the lever return unaided or does (s)he keep a hold and guide it back more smoothly?

Rik

Hi Rick,

As far as I'm aware, the arms of most lower quads will go back on even if disconnected from the operating rod (connecting it to the balance weight). The spectacle plate casting is heavy enough to do the job. That means that the movement isn't that much different from an upper quad arm.

As far as lever operation goes, we are back to infinite variables. Some levers won't 'fly back in the frame' if the catch is released, especially ones controlling signals more distant from the box. The weight of so much signal wire has a 'drag' and there is often a dirty great balance weight on the lever tail to help pull the signal off which then fights it going back on. Another thing to consider is that letting a lever fly back risks damaging the frame and even more so any electric locks connected to the lever. Rough treatment of a frame risks the displeasure of both the signal engineers and the signalling inspector! You see what I mean about infinite variables!

SVLR Andrew

[ge_rik]

Andrew
Am I right in thinking that when a lower quadrant signal returns to danger (on?), it's largely the weight of the counter balance which dictates its movement rather than the signalman controlling it? Does the signalman tend to let the lever return unaided or does (s)he keep a hold and guide it back more smoothly?

Rik

Hi Rick,

As far as I'm aware, the arms of most lower quads will go back on even if disconnected from the operating rod (connecting it to the balance weight). The spectacle plate casting is heavy enough to do the job. That means that the movement isn't that much different from an upper quad arm.

As far as lever operation goes, we are back to infinite variables. Some levers won't 'fly back in the frame' if the catch is released, especially ones controlling signals more distant from the box. The weight of so much signal wire has a 'drag' and there is often a dirty great balance weight on the lever tail to help pull the signal off which then fights it going back on. Another thing to consider is that letting a lever fly back risks damaging the frame and even more so any electric locks connected to the lever. Rough treatment of a frame risks the displeasure of both the signal engineers and the signalling inspector! You see what I mean about infinite variables!

SVLR Andrew

Thanks, Andrew. That's really helpful. Must admit that the mechanics of the traditional signal box is a bit of a black box for me, particularly interlocking. Do they do signalbox tours on the SVLR?

Rik

[tommygander1941]

If you want a little look around a signal box Rik, just come to the Bala Lake Railway. It might have to be February half-term if you haven't booked for the Santa Specials, although you could turn up and just say you've come to look at the signal box for modelling references

[ge_rik]

If you want a little look around a signal box Rik, just come to the Bala Lake Railway. It might have to be February half-term if you haven't booked for the Santa Specials, although you could turn up and just say you've come to look at the signal box for modelling references

Thanks. Bala is closer to me than Bridgnorth. I have been in the signal box at Llanuwchllyn but I think it's the downstairs which would be the most interesting part.

Rik

[tommygander1941]

If you want a little look around a signal box Rik, just come to the Bala Lake Railway. It might have to be February half-term if you haven't booked for the Santa Specials, although you could turn up and just say you've come to look at the signal box for modelling references

Thanks. Bala is closer to me than Bridgnorth. I have been in the signal box at Llanuwchllyn but I think it's the downstairs which would be the most interesting part.

Rik

I'm sure they'd be welcome to let you into the downstairs area, especially as its only one of two frames of its type left

[ge_rik]

Now finished motorising all 20 signal arms (19 signals). A little bit of fine-tuning still needed to the coding for each signal to compensate for the slight differences in the linkages and then, of course, I've got to dig and line the pits needed for them to be deployed around the railway. That'll be a fun job....

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Rik

[gregh]

I pity the poor train driver faced with that lineup of signals.

Great work Rik. They look terrific.

[drewzero1]

I pity the poor train driver faced with that lineup of signals.

Great work Rik. They look terrific.

Reminds me of a story I read with my kids:

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Full story: https://childrensvinyl.wordpress.com/20 ... oryteller/

Unlike Tootle however the Peckforton trains seem to be very good at Staying on the Rails No Matter What.
Semaphores are looking good Rik. I love to see the bounce when they go up and down, really gives a sense of weight to them.

[philipy]

Very impressive line up Rik.

[Trevor Thompson]

Brilliant!

Trevor

[Soar Valley Light]

Nice work Rik. More arms there than the Rugby gantry!

[ge_rik]

Taken a while, but I've finally gotten around to putting in sockets around the railway for the signals at each station.

The sockets are simply four pieces of foamboard, sprayed black

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These have then been concreted in .....

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..... so the signals can then be slotted into place.

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The sockets will next have ballast and other grot applied to blend them in.

I'm considering making foamboard lids to try and stop debris from filling the sockets when not in use. But I suspect the woodlice will still find their way in.

Rik

[philipy]

I'm considering making foamboard lids to try and stop debris from filling the sockets when not in use. But I suspect the woodlice will still find their way in.

The sockets look good Rik.
How about a solid block of a rigid foam ( aka electronics packing )? Easy to cut, waterproof and would fill the space and keep the gribblies out.

[ge_rik]

I'm considering making foamboard lids to try and stop debris from filling the sockets when not in use. But I suspect the woodlice will still find their way in.

The sockets look good Rik.
How about a solid block of a rigid foam ( aka electronics packing )? Easy to cut, waterproof and would fill the space and keep the gribblies out.

Nice idea, thanks.

Rik

[SimonWood]

How about a solid block of a rigid foam ( aka electronics packing )? Easy to cut, waterproof and would fill the space and keep the gribblies out.

I was thinking along those lines - but I wondered if you could just print a spare empty gubbins case, perhaps with a little handle to facilitate pulling it out, and just swap it over with the one full of signal+real electronics when you have a running session?

[ge_rik]

How about a solid block of a rigid foam ( aka electronics packing )? Easy to cut, waterproof and would fill the space and keep the gribblies out.

I was thinking along those lines - but I wondered if you could just print a spare empty gubbins case, perhaps with a little handle to facilitate pulling it out, and just swap it over with the one full of signal+real electronics when you have a running session?

Another great idea, thanks

Rik

[ge_rik]

How about a solid block of a rigid foam ( aka electronics packing )? Easy to cut, waterproof and would fill the space and keep the gribblies out.

I was thinking along those lines - but I wondered if you could just print a spare empty gubbins case, perhaps with a little handle to facilitate pulling it out, and just swap it over with the one full of signal+real electronics when you have a running session?

Thanks for the suggestion, Simon. I've now printed out sufficient plugs for all the sockets around the line. Trying to decide if they need painting to make them a bit more weather resistant.

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Rik
PS - Sorry about the bird poo. I see so much of it on the line I now don't spot it (until I look at closeup photos)

[yeronim967]

Going self-contained with each signal massively simplifies wiring and opens up so many placement options. Using 3.7v Li-ion with Seeeduino and micro servos is a smart combo too—low power, flexible, and way less cable spaghetti. Would love to see how you handle syncing or grouping if you go that route. Keep at it, sounds like you’re on the right track now.

[ge_rik]

Going self-contained with each signal massively simplifies wiring and opens up so many placement options. Using 3.7v Li-ion with Seeeduino and micro servos is a smart combo too—low power, flexible, and way less cable spaghetti. Would love to see how you handle syncing or grouping if you go that route. Keep at it, sounds like you’re on the right track now.

Interesting idea. I don't really need routing as my signalling is very basic - basically a Home and a Starter for each station. However, with Arduino/Seeeduino, I suspect routing would be fairly straightforward. The tricky bit would be trying to design a handset - or maybe a phone app would be the way to go......

Rik
PS Just read your post again. Hmmmm .... Syncing. Now there's a thought .....