Beginner Live steam loco

[Sam95]

Dear all,

My layout is very small, even if an extension is planned. And all the curves are R1 from LGB and I can't change them, my garden is too small.

With that said do you think I can found a live steam loco able to run on my track with R1 curves ? My objective is not to pull many wagons (not more than 3-4 I think)

And if you have specific models to propose ?

[GTB]

Dear all,

My layout is very small, even if an extension is planned. And all the curves are R1 from LGB and I can't change them, my garden is too small.

With that said do you think I can found a live steam loco able to run on my track with R1 curves ? My objective is not to pull many wagons (not more than 3-4 I think)

And if you have specific models to propose ?

Roundhouse locos aren't the cheapest around, but have a very good reputation, both for quality and backup service. Their small 0-4-0 locos can manage 2 ft minimum radius curves which approximates LGB R1 set track curves. the Basic range are cheaper, but have slip eccentric valve gear. The Classic range models have more sophisticated reversing and are also available with r/c control, if you have the extra cash.

Regner is also an option. Their geared locos are very controllable, but they are a bit lightly built for my taste. People that run them seem to be happy with them.

The small Accucraft locos should be OK on R1 curves, but my experience with a couple of their US locos wasn't good. The Accucraft UK ones seem to run OK from my observation of them at steam ups.

Second hand locos are an option if you are on a budget, but be wary. Make sure you see it run before handing over any money.

My first live steamer was a non-runner. It was going cheap and I knew what I was getting into. Rebuilding it taught me a lot, but I already had a workshop and machine tools. I also had friends with experience of small locos, that I could consult. I would never have got it running with a few hand tools and working on the kitchen table. My second loco was a Roundhouse, which worked perfectly straight out of the box.

If you want a recommendation, and can afford it, I'd look at a Roundhouse Billy, or Katie. Maybe even a Lady Anne, although that might be a bit big in your circumstances.

Alternatives would be one of the smaller Regner, or Accucraft locos, or one of the Roundhouse Basic range. Unless you have a lot of small steam loco experience already and are prepared to tinker, avoid MSS and Mamod. Also be wary of secondhand locos, unless you know the seller and/or the history of the model.

Do your research. There's a lot of relevant info online, including on this site if you use the search function. Be prepared for sticker shock, live steamers aren't cheap.

Hope that helps.

Regards,
Graeme

[Sam95]

Thank you for all the informations.

I had a look on internet and indeed it is very expensive to start live steam. Maybe I can have this project in 5 years... for my 50th anniversary.

[jimmytrains_01]

running2207201a.jpg (307.66 KiB) Viewed 33798 times

my take on what would look good.
Accuraft sabrina and two P.s. Model 45mm slate wagons

[jimmytrains_01]

bertie and mayflower.jpeg (63.7 KiB) Viewed 33794 times

hopefully photo shows a roundhouse bertie with a size comparison with a merlin mayflower, these are smaller locos which would suit a smaller layout.
The bertie is pushed in the direction of travel and can keep up with a time tabled run.

[Sam95]

I love the colonel mustard !!

If I understand well you are not able to radio control it ? So once it is running you let it roll ?

[jimmytrains_01]

it is a push and go, the regulator gives the speed, you need to grab the roof for a controlled stop! doesn't quite happen when you run round a friend's swimming pool. It didn't stop at some trailing points and went swimming in another friends pond. can be controlled enough to run on a raised track until the track is switched to a side your not on.

[jimmytrains_01]

col on tour.jpg (1.82 MiB) Viewed 31795 times

[jimmytrains_01]

https://gardenrails.org/download/file.p ... w&id=21848

my regner lumber jack would be a good choice for your railway, slow and steady looks good with small wagons or logging wagons or rustic coaches. the wagons are Ps model 45mm version slate wagons with resin slate stacks

[Durley]

I love the colonel mustard !!

If I understand well you are not able to radio control it ? So once it is running you let it roll ?

Roundhouse does sell an RC kit for suitable for Bertie (Basic Series RC Kit) but it only controls the regulator (stop, go and speed). Changing direction would still require manual intervention (by pushing the loco in the other direction).

[Sam95]

Thanks for the precision

[artfull dodger]

So.....did you get an engine? Out there on the second hand side of the hobby, any 4 coupled or close 6 coupled live steamer will be fine on R1 curves. Something with RC is best. From older Merlin Mayflower 0-4-0 or Major 0-6-0, Most any of the popular Roundhouse engines, Billy, Katie, Lady Anne ect will be fine on R1. LGB/Aster did the Frank S in live steam if Euro is your flavor. Also 4 or 6 coupled models from Pearse or Accucraft UK will be fine. I do find having RC makes running on tight radius much more enjoyable unless the model is geared like one of the Regners. If your in the UK, Simon over at Anything Narrow Gauge is a great souce for second engine locos as well as new from Roundhouse. Let us know what you end up getting. Mike.

[Sam95]

hello,

It is a long time project and for now I concentrate my efforts on the railway itself and landscaping.
In France it is not so easy to find livesteam second hand.

[Palmerston]

If you buy a second-hand item in the UK (which always include VAT), you must pay VAT in your own country on the shipping costs and the price of the product. In addition, there are handling costs.

If you buy a new product in the UK, it is without VAT. If not ask for. At customs you then pay VAT on the purchase price and shipping costs. Again a handling fee is added.

So a secondhand item is or can be as expensive as a new! For relatively cheap new items, the fixed handling costs make the product very expensive.

Also keep in mind the exhange rate, Pound <--> Euro

[Paul_in_Ricky]

If you buy a second-hand item in the UK (which always include VAT), you must pay VAT in your own country on the shipping costs and the price of the product. In addition, there are handling costs.
If you buy a new product in the UK, it is without VAT. If not ask for. At customs you then pay VAT on the purchase price and shipping costs. Again a handling fee is added.

This isn't clear or correct information.

There are basically three ways to buy secondhand in person in the UK:

From a shop or dealer;
Normally the price paid will include VAT (so an item at £1200 will include £200 VAT)
(However some smaller dealers may not have a high enough turnover to need to register for VAT, so may not be charging it at all)
Also some dealers may be selling an item on a commission basis and VAT will only be paid on the commission element of the final sale price.
Check with the dealer what VAT is in their price.

Via an auction house;
The final price will only include VAT on the sellers premium, so you will need to ask how much of the final price is VAT.

Private sales;
These won't include any element of VAT.

If planning to export an item it will be vital to get an invoice that shows if VAT has been paid and if permanently exported that VAT can be reclaimed.
You will also have to declare it on import and pay any duty and tax due in the final destination country.

If buying by mail order dealers may be prepared to sell without including VAT, but will put a customs declaration on the shipment detailing contents and value for the importing country to collect any tax and duty due.
Plus shipping and handling costs.
Not every dealer may be prepared to do this as it complicate their VAT return process, check first before placing an order.

[Palmerston]

I am sure my information is correct, bought several items over a few months this way, both new and second hand from registered businesses.

[Paul_in_Ricky]

I am sure my information is correct,

I'm afraid not.

Maybe English isn't your first language, but saying "If you buy a new product in the UK, it is without VAT." simply isn't correct. There's far more complexity to the issue.

I started work in photo shops here in the UK and we frequently dealt with tourists trying to understand our tax system. More recently I've run my own VAT registered business, so have a reasonable understanding of how VAT works in the UK.

[Palmerston]

If you buy a second-hand item in the UK (which always include VAT), you must pay VAT in your own country on the shipping costs and the price of the product. In addition, there are handling costs.

If you buy a new product in the UK, it is without VAT. If not ask for. At customs you then pay VAT on the purchase price and shipping costs. Again a handling fee is added.

So a secondhand item is or can be as expensive as a new! For relatively cheap new items, the fixed handling costs make the product very expensive.

Also keep in mind the exhange rate, Pound <--> Euro

Then let's replace the general term "item" with model train or part of. That's what this forum is largely about.

The topic starter lives in France, so the euro zone, just like me. I'm just sharing my experiences about buying in the UK post-Brexit. The procedure may not be entirely correct, but it is practice. If you do not pay the costs charged by the parcel carrier/customs, the package will be returned and you will have nothing. And then you just have to get your money back from the seller. Brexit is still a negative event for me.

[Sam95]

Indeed with Brexit, UK is not realy an easy option now.
Few years ago I bought some N scale models in UK and it was not so complicated.

My family has a friend who lives in Melton Mowbray.

I can perhaps organize a trip in UK ans visit some shop one day....

[Phil.P]

If you have family / friends in the UK. You could approach a vendor and see if they would be willing to post to a UK address for you. - I am pretty sure most would do this.
Just be aware that 'cottage industries' may build items to order, so enquire in plenty of time, before your visit to the UK.

Phil.P