Llewellyn Carriage works contract for the POR

[Hydrostatic Dazza]

Captain Plod is now attempting to channel Glenn, Boston Lodge's carriage maestro.
The Red Room is now the Llewellyn Carriage Workshops, a four carriage consist for the Potters Orchid Railway is underway. The hard wired lighting and tail lamps has been sorted, now the woodwork resumes on these Brandbright kits. Plod has never been here before but for the goods van Slomo wagon he made a few years ago.

[Hydrostatic Dazza]

Captain Plod's mind is staggering with this non metal work concept.
He is very concerned with the exterior paint finish work. He has attempted research into the methods but processes are inclusive, so he is going to plead for advice from a Maestro. This may settle his nerves.









You doppey dipstick plodder, first class was supposed to be blue upholstery



[url=https://flic.kr/p/2qi5C1W]

Stick of wood, double sided cello tap, then masking tape to that and the seat supports pressed onto the masking tape which is sticky side up. Plod thought he was a clever sod to think that up.

[Hydrostatic Dazza]

G'day everyone and a big hello to Maestro Peter Butler,

Captain Plod is building four Brandbright carriage kits. (two kits at a time so his cranium does not have a melt down)
He has anxieties!
He would be happy to get to this picture

So he needs to ask for some advice and or confirm that he is on the right path with these. He has tried researching forum threads and the ether net but he cannot form up some conclusive answers to his anxieties.
(Garden Railway Club, an article by Dia has been the best one he has found so far)

He intends to first sand and file every edge/shoreline to remove most of the black LASER cutting burn. Then to get a smooth fine outside finish Plod launches his first attack to the bare outside ply sides by rubbing down with 400 grit, then sealing with Rustins Quick Drying MDF clear sealer. Rubbing this back with 400 or 600 grit. Applying Auto lacquer colour paint via spray can. Then rubbing back with 600 grit for 3 -4 coats. (Plod will do some test panels on spare ply to ensure the paint finish works as intended) Plod is a narrow minded metal worker so he has never been here before with gloss paints and ply carriage walls. The thin outside onlay skeleton he was going to spray a contrast colour, then when the coats are dry glue this to the outside walls.
Final overall coat will be a gloss clear varnish. (before the glazing is added)

* However what would be the best glue to glue these painted overlays to the finish painted outside walls?
He is pondering how to obtain a clean neat sealed edge of the only to the outside carriage wall.

* Or does he glue to all up and then again paint and chase the edges with a fine brush ?

*Or do you have suggesting to how he might do these processes differently?

Cheers from Captain Plod's Therapist.

[Old Man Aaron]

Wracking my brain here, I'm not sure what sort of glue you'd use for the overlays.


You could use PVA or model plane canopy cement (Looks and smells like PVA but is tacky) applied to the overlay with a toothpick - but I doubt the strength of PVA glues on a painted carriage main wall. I'd also worry about the moisture content warping the overlays.


You could use superglue with a fine-tipped applicator - but you would have to seal the backside of the overlay with a thin coat of paint to stop the ply from soaking up the superglue as you apply it. You would also have to work very, very quick. You'd risk getting excess superglue dribbled across the wrong side of the overlays or carriage body, and possibly those white "fume" marks it tends to leave - especially on windows..


Two-part epoxy (the 24hr kind) applied to the overlays with a toothpick, would, in my book, work best.

Glue choices aside, your proposed painting process is similar to what I've had success with in past builds. You may find the sealer fills in the laser-scribed panel lines, so be prepared to gently re-scribe them between sanding and re-coating the sealer. A light coat of white or grey over the sealer will act as a guide coat, and help show up imperfections.

Good luck Daz, you'll see them turn out beautiful.

[Peter Butler]

When sticking pre-painted overlays to body sides I have found 'ZAP' Canopy Glue, (others are almost certainly available!) which is a rubberised adhesive similar to 'Copydex' but flows more easily.
You can take your time applying (with a cocktail stick) as Aaron suggests, as it needs a short time to be less liquid. When the overlay is applied to the painted surface any Canopy Glue can easily be removed with water whilst still wet. It can be handled after 3 hours and fully cures in 24 hours.
I have been using it for a number of years now and the overlays are still there!
Hope that helps.

[Hydrostatic Dazza]

Wracking my brain here, I'm not sure what sort of glue you'd use for the overlays.


You could use PVA or model plane canopy cement (Looks and smells like PVA but is tacky) applied to the overlay with a toothpick - but I doubt the strength of PVA glues on a painted carriage main wall. I'd also worry about the moisture content warping the overlays.


You could use superglue with a fine-tipped applicator - but you would have to seal the backside of the overlay with a thin coat of paint to stop the ply from soaking up the superglue as you apply it. You would also have to work very, very quick. You'd risk getting excess superglue dribbled across the wrong side of the overlays or carriage body, and possibly those white "fume" marks it tends to leave - especially on windows..


Two-part epoxy (the 24hr kind) applied to the overlays with a toothpick, would, in my book, work best.

Glue choices aside, your proposed painting process is similar to what I've had success with in past builds. You may find the sealer fills in the laser-scribed panel lines, so be prepared to gently re-scribe them between sanding and re-coating the sealer. A light coat of white or grey over the sealer will act as a guide coat, and help show up imperfections.

Good luck Daz, you'll see them turn out beautiful.

Super. I will get back soon. I have had to deal with a family emergency yesterday and it requires surgeries. More later.

[Hydrostatic Dazza]

When sticking pre-painted overlays to body sides I have found 'ZAP' Canopy Glue, (others are almost certainly available!) which is a rubberised adhesive similar to 'Copydex' but flows more easily.
You can take your time applying (with a cocktail stick) as Aaron suggests, as it needs a short time to be less liquid. When the overlay is applied to the painted surface any Canopy Glue can easily be removed with water whilst still wet. It can be handled after 3 hours and fully cures in 24 hours.
I have been using it for a number of years now and the overlays are still there!
Hope that helps.

Brilliant. Thank you very much for replying. Plod will call in the Hobby Shop today on the way home from the Royal Brisbane Hospital after counting how many toes are left on mothers foot after surgery some time in the dark hours. One should not treat diabetes with contempt.

[Keith S]

I do love those Brandbright coaches. I bought four of them some years ago but have only built one so far.

As I recall, I filled and painted the sides much the way you describe. I painted the overlays separately and when the paint was thoroughly dry I sanded the backs of them with 400 grit paper over top of a perfectly flat countertop, to make sure the contact surface was as dead flat as possible. then I used slow-drying CA glue with a fine applicator. I put weight on them as the glue cured to keep them as flat as possible. I think it turned out well; there is no gap between the overlays and the sides. I was actually quite pleased with myself. Here is a picture of it. I painted it the same colour as the loco, which was a mistake in retrospect as the Canadian paint company has apparently discontinued this colour. Maybe Inwill make the rest of them green. It’s narrow gauge: probably OK to have a motley assortment of colours eh?

Oh one more thing: I glued the overlays onto the sides BEFORE assembling the four sides. That way I was able to keep them perfectly flat as they dried under a heavy weight. If you’re careful aligning them, the sides will mate up perfectly.

IMG_1526.jpeg (766.12 KiB) Viewed 10787 times

[Hydrostatic Dazza]

I appreciate your reply. I had not thought of the overlays to the sides before assembly, thanks for the tip.
Various gel, slow drying, canopy CA glues are on their way for Plod to try out on test samples so as to get a feel of the processes before committing to kits.

I do love those Brandbright coaches. I bought four of them some years ago but have only built one so far.

As I recall, I filled and painted the sides much the way you describe. I painted the overlays separately and when the paint was thoroughly dry I sanded the backs of them with 400 grit paper over top of a perfectly flat countertop, to make sure the contact surface was as dead flat as possible. then I used slow-drying CA glue with a fine applicator. I put weight on them as the glue cured to keep them as flat as possible. I think it turned out well; there is no gap between the overlays and the sides. I was actually quite pleased with myself. Here is a picture of it. I painted it the same colour as the loco, which was a mistake in retrospect as the Canadian paint company has apparently discontinued this colour. Maybe Inwill make the rest of them green. It’s narrow gauge: probably OK to have a motley assortment of colours eh?

Oh one more thing: I glued the overlays onto the sides BEFORE assembling the four sides. That way I was able to keep them perfectly flat as they dried under a heavy weight. If you’re careful aligning them, the sides will mate up perfectly.

IMG_1526.jpeg

[Hydrostatic Dazza]

As Captain Plod explores the world of Chroming and comes down from his short term high, he is attempting to learn, seek improvement to his woeful painting exploits. Sample test pieces with various techniques applied and notes being taken. Plod lives in fear of making a proper mess of the painting caper.

[philipy]

Plod lives in fear of making a proper mess of the painting caper.

We all know that fear Dazza!
However it's looking good so far and knowing your other skills, I have no doubt this will be another one to add to the list.

[Hydrostatic Dazza]

Plod lives in fear of making a proper mess of the painting caper.

We all know that fear Dazza!
However it's looking good so far and knowing your other skills, I have no doubt this will be another one to add to the list.

I am not so confident

[Hydrostatic Dazza]

Captain Plod is making slow progress with the paint test/practice samples.
Inspired by the Durley post » Sat Oct 26, 2024 Brandbright Panelled Coaches
Plod has a collection of gold pens and is experimenting. Only the one dark maroon Director's Salon carriage will get the lining treatment. So far the Gundam gold fine pen one seems the best, but Plod would like a thinner one. Gumdam make a black panel line pen that is the perfect thickness and works super, but not available in gold. Sigh. No doubt due to the viscosity of gold pigments. Plod could get out his Bob Moor's line pen he has had for a few decades and learn to use it for the first time, but life is too short and he does not want that bother. Some pens say only use water based clears over them but plod smashed his samples with Tamiya and Dupli colour clears and no ill effects have been encountered.
As for paint, what a drag is painting. He is using Tamiya acrylic lacquer in the spray cans because these will be the first and only carriages he ever puts his hands to. (got to get to work on the 4 1/2" scale Foden Lorry before he dies) It seems he needs to let the paint fume off for a week or more before applying Tamiya masking tape or it marrs the paint surface.

[Hydrostatic Dazza]

Question and a plea for advice from the subject matter experts.

Plod as per Peter B's good advice is using ZAP Canopy Formula 560 on the test piece overlays. He has added a thin applicator tube, OK, but how the heck can one slow down the drying time of this brew?
Things are OK for small test pieces but what about the full length pieces?
The brew seems to be curing faster than one could carefully apply to a large complicated overlay
One could cut it down into sections but Plod is reluctant to do this.

It is 30-35 degrees plus here, (summer in Queensland)

HELP !

[Peter Butler]

Hi Dazza, we are located in the 'Red weather warning zone', being a short distance from the West coast of Wales, and having just had our electricity supply restored following a 24 hour shut-down courtesy of Storm Darragh, I can now reply to your questions.

During my career as bespoke picture framer, when I created 'wash-line' mounts I used to mark fine gold lines with a Japanese, 'Pilot' super colour, gold lining pen. I still have one now, 25 years after retiring from the trade. It is rated 'extra fine' and has a metal tubular nib of approx.1mm outside diam. giving a 0.5mm line. However, after all this time it has congealed and decided to retire too, so will have to find its way to the bin!
Having checked on eBay they are still available (in UK) so search the title above and see whether you think it suitable.

As for the Canopy adhesive, I can only suggest the temperature is not suited to its use in the circumstances you describe as I haven't had the same issue here in our Welsh climate. Perhaps you could try working on a glass plate over an ice filled baking tray to maintain a cool surface temperature?

[Hydrostatic Dazza]

Hi Dazza, we are located in the 'Red weather warning zone', being a short distance from the West coast of Wales, and having just had our electricity supply restored following a 24 hour shut-down courtesy of Storm Darragh, I can now reply to your questions.

During my career as bespoke picture framer, when I created 'wash-line' mounts I used to mark fine gold lines with a Japanese, 'Pilot' super colour, gold lining pen. I still have one now, 25 years after retiring from the trade. It is rated 'extra fine' and has a metal tubular nib of approx.1mm outside diam. giving a 0.5mm line. However, after all this time it has congealed and decided to retire too, so will have to find its way to the bin!
Having checked on eBay they are still available (in UK) so search the title above and see whether you think it suitable.

As for the Canopy adhesive, I can only suggest the temperature is not suited to its use in the circumstances you describe as I haven't had the same issue here in our Welsh climate. Perhaps you could try working on a glass plate over an ice filled baking tray to maintain a cool surface temperature?

We have heard about Darragh, it canned some Santa trains at the FWHR.
I will delve into the ether net in search of such pens.
Glass tray and ice. You are a genius, I am going to give that a go. BTW these carriages are a lot of toil.

[Durley]

Looking good! For thinner gold lining from a pen, I suggest trying Uni-Ball Signo Gel Pens. I’ve had some success using one of these (also available in silver and white). Success is dependent on how well the roller ball can grip and therefore rotate properly on the painted surface. Matt paint worked better than a gloss finish in my tests.

[Hydrostatic Dazza]

1. Filler applied.
2. Sanded P320
3. 3 x coats of Dupli Colour filler primer. Getting into the edges of window opening
4. Sand with P600 (only had wet and dry, no stock of non loading P600 available
5. Finish sand with Tamiya P1500 sanding sponge. P1000 might be better if Plod had it here.
6. Waiting to pluck up the courage to mask and apply colour coats
7. Plod has lost count on the $ cost tally of the paint so far but it has far passed the cost of the kits. And most of that was just testing. More gold paint pens coming to test as well for the maroon directors salon.

[Durley]

Quick test to show different line thicknesses from (top to bottom) Uniball Gel pen, Posca PC-1MR and Pilot Super Colour Permanent Ink pens. The Pilot pen is also sold by uni-ball as the 0.8mm permanent paint marker.

You can see where the gel pen has not produced a consistent width line due to the roller sliding rather than properly rotating. This was on unpainted black plasticard. A Matt painted surface gives more consistent results.

IMG_4699.jpeg (2.79 MiB) Viewed 8513 times

[Hydrostatic Dazza]

Quick test to show different line thicknesses from (top to bottom) Uniball Gel pen, Posca PC-1MR and Pilot Super Colour Permanent Ink pens. The Pilot pen is also sold by uni-ball as the 0.8mm permanent paint marker.

You can see where the gel pen has not produced a consistent width line due to the roller sliding rather than properly rotating. This was on unpainted black plasticard. A Matt painted surface gives more consistent results.

IMG_4699.jpeg

I have the Posca and the Pilot and others.
They really do need the paper or a matt surface to drag the fluid out as the glossy surfaces proves troublesome. So far the Posca gives the thinner line but not as consistent as others. I may try out the Bob Moores lining pen with paint to firm up the decision. I think I have some more pens coming in the post to trial.