RC semaphore signalling

[ge_rik]

Ten years ago I constructed twenty signals. I put four of them under radio control but then lost motivation as I couldn't figure out how to do the rest of them efficiently - four signals had to be hard-wired to a central RC receiver powered by 12v at each station. Recently, I came across tiny linear servos, a cheapo RC system and Seeeduino microprocessors which would all operate off a single 3.7v li-ion cell. This means each signal can be self-contained with its own power supply and receiver.

Early days, yet, but I'm pleased with progress so far.



Rik

[tommygander1941]

Ten years ago I constructed twenty signals. I put four of them under radio control but then lost motivation as I couldn't figure out how to do the rest of them efficiently - four signals had to be hard-wired to a central RC receiver powered by 12v at each station. Recently, I came across tiny linear servos, a cheapo RC system and Seeeduino microprocessors which would all operate off a single 3.7v li-ion cell. This means each signal can be self-contained with its own power supply and receiver.

Early days, yet, but I'm pleased with progress so far.



Rik

Ooo signalling, one of my favourite elements of any railway (apart from colour light signals). If you do eventually make many will there be separate signals for both platforms at Beeston Market, or will they be controlled by just the one?

[gregh]

Looking good Rik.
Are there only 4 signals at each station?
Will you have to carry 5 of those keyfob controllers around for the 20 signals? You'll have to glue them all to single 'carry board' !

I imagine you will just be at one station when you want to control it's signals. So worth thinking about how you could just have just 1 keyfob and a local, manual switch at each station to power up only those local signals ??? Maybe the arduino could somehow set all signals to stop when you power off? ( you don't have to actually power off the whole supply, just the supply to each Rx.)
Feel free to tell me and my ideas to get lost!

As an aside, I went through the exercise of using normal, rotating servos to operate 3 signals, 10 years ago, but the little servos didn't like outdoor life, even though I had them in little rain proof covers. So they are all gone now!
Greg

[ge_rik]

Looking good Rik.
Are there only 4 signals at each station?
Will you have to carry 5 of those keyfob controllers around for the 20 signals? You'll have to glue them all to single 'carry board' !

I imagine you will just be at one station when you want to control it's signals. So worth thinking about how you could just have just 1 keyfob and a local, manual switch at each station to power up only those local signals ??? Maybe the arduino could somehow set all signals to stop when you power off? ( you don't have to actually power off the whole supply, just the supply to each Rx.)
Feel free to tell me and my ideas to get lost!

Yes. Keeping it simple. Four signals at each station. Two starters and homes at each station. However, I might need to install a couple of extra signals to control the copper mine branch.

I'm thinking I'll leave a keyfob at each station. I generally follow trains from station to station.

Each signal sets to danger when I power on. Not sure how to do it on power off.

As an aside, I went through the exercise of using normal, rotating servos to operate 3 signals, 10 years ago, but the little servos didn't like outdoor life, even though I had them in little rain proof covers. So they are all gone now!
Greg

These will be deployed at the start of running sessions and then live indoors. That's why I wanted to make them self contained. No need to worry about waterproof plugs and water proofing the control boxes - though will make them shower proof.

BTW thanks for your help with the first Picaxe controller. You'll be pleased to hear I've retained the names "raiseit" and "lowerit" for the two main subroutines. Unfortunately, I couldn't use your coding as Picaxe and Arduino use quite different syntax. A pity as the servo movement on your coding is a lot smoother and reaIistic than mine.

Rik

[Andrew]

This is an exciting development! I love a bit of signalling but, alas, the NWNGR hacked down all their semaphores when they started running under a Light Railway Order, so they weren't a feature of the WHR...

I saw an amazing modern image OO layout at an exhibition, based on a large and busy junction, where the signalman sat in the middle and operated the (colour light) signals - the other operators then ran trains accordingly. So, obviously, I'm picturing a mammoth PLR running session, with a signalman (clutching a handful of key fobs) perched in a tennis umpire's chair in the middle of your lawn, while the poor train crew try to comply with his/her instructions! As an actual signalman, I'm volunteering SVLR Andrew for the job - he'd keep everyone under control...

That happy little daydream's going to make this afternoon's work fly by...

Cheers,

Andrew.

[ge_rik]

Hopefully, this time I will be able to equip and deploy every signal. As Greg has pointed out, I'll need to keep tabs on charging them.

Rik

[Soar Valley Light]

This is an exciting development! I love a bit of signalling but, alas, the NWNGR hacked down all their semaphores when they started running under a Light Railway Order, so they weren't a feature of the WHR...

I saw an amazing modern image OO layout at an exhibition, based on a large and busy junction, where the signalman sat in the middle and operated the (colour light) signals - the other operators then ran trains accordingly. So, obviously, I'm picturing a mammoth PLR running session, with a signalman (clutching a handful of key fobs) perched in a tennis umpire's chair in the middle of your lawn, while the poor train crew try to comply with his/her instructions! As an actual signalman, I'm volunteering SVLR Andrew for the job - he'd keep everyone under control...

That happy little daydream's going to make this afternoon's work fly by...

Cheers,

Andrew.

Oi! It's bad enough with a lever frame, Key fobs sound like a step too far for me!

That said, I don't suppose it would be too difficult for someone of Rik's RC abilities to rig up a simple lever frame that worked the key fobs Now with a nice little miniature lever frame you could consider me tempted. It's one of the reasons that Kingscote on the Bluebell is one of my favourite boxes to work.

Well done to RIK for such an impressive development. Like others have mentioned, signals (on the right sort of railway) can really 'make the scene' and if they work as proto-typically as Rik'S do they are the icing on the cake.

I'm officially impressed.

SVLR Andrew

[ge_rik]

Thanks Andrew. Praise indeed.
Not sure I can adapt the key fob into a ground frame but it's an interesting idea.

Rik

[Trevor Thompson]

Rik

A very interesting development!

I have a plan to fit signals to the "Railway in the valley of the mill", and have started by drawing out the Festiniog type signals, ready for printing. I have even started to work out how to programme Arduino boards.

So your ideas have arrived at just the right time.

You can hardly drive a train on my railway without following the locomotive so I think your plan to leave a controller at each station might actually work for me!

Trevor

[ge_rik]

Rik

A very interesting development!

I have a plan to fit signals to the "Railway in the valley of the mill", and have started by drawing out the Festiniog type signals, ready for printing. I have even started to work out how to programme Arduino boards.

So your ideas have arrived at just the right time.

You can hardly drive a train on my railway without following the locomotive so I think your plan to leave a controller at each station might actually work for me!

Trevor

I've tweaked the code so that an LED in the signal lamp can be turned on and off by holding down the keyfob button for three seconds or or longer. I'm in the process of designing, tweaking and 3D printing out bases to hold the battery and the electronics. Nearly there! I'll then place the Arduino code and a link to the .STL files for base on my blog. Hopefully, some of that will be of use and interest.

Rik

[ge_rik]

BTW - I've now blogged the build which includes the Arduino code and a link to the .STL files which are in the 3D printing section on this forum.

https://riksrailway.blogspot.com/2024/0 ... phore.html

Rik

[GAP]

Rik what is the max range of the keyfob transmitters?

[ge_rik]

Rik what is the max range of the keyfob transmitters?

Not tested it Graeme. Later on, I'll go outside and give it a try

Rik

[ge_rik]

Rik what is the max range of the keyfob transmitters?

Hi Graeme
Just did a range test. It was still working 25m away, but I could only just see the signal from that distance. It might be more (I'd need binoculars to see), but I doubt it would be much further. Certainly more than enough for my garden. But that, of course, is direct line of sight. It will be less if there's foliage, buildings or people in the way.

Rik

[tommygander1941]

Have you tried adjusting the motor so when the signal is pulled, there's a delay between when it reaches halfway and fully down? I've seen it done on other signals for OO gauge, it sort of represents the signalman pausing briefly to get both hands on the lever and properly pull it back (I've done this myself when having a go in signal boxes).

There's a slight bounce, but that's mainly when the signal is further away from the box and its not as much compared to the signal being returned to danger, as that's when the counterweight is moved down.

[ge_rik]

Have you tried adjusting the motor so when the signal is pulled, there's a delay between when it reaches halfway and fully down? I've seen it done on other signals for OO gauge, it sort of represents the signalman pausing briefly to get both hands on the lever and properly pull it back (I've done this myself when having a go in signal boxes).

There's a slight bounce, but that's mainly when the signal is further away from the box and its not as much compared to the signal being returned to danger, as that's when the counterweight is moved down.

Not tried that as yet. I'm just working on the last signal base, then I'll individually reprogram each one. Because there are slight differences in the linkages for each signal, I need to tailor the coding for some of them. I might also tweak their bounces at the same time.

I've found around half a dozen videos showing semaphore signals being pulled and each one seems slightly different. I suspect in the real thing there is no definitive motion for the pull or the bounce.

Rik

[ge_rik]

This must be my favourite




Rik

[tommygander1941]

This must be my favourite




Rik

That's brilliant it all depends really on how long the distance is between the box and the signal, also how big the arm is. I know for a fact Glyndyfrdwy section signals are very hard to pull, along with Carrog's outer home (must be at least a quarter of a mile).

[Soar Valley Light]

That clip of the lattice post signal looks like a very badly adjusted (too tight) signal wire.

The previous shot of the tubular post signal looks like it might have a pretty tight (but not necessarily too tight) wire too. I don't think the bounce is being caused by the signalman taking up the slack then going for it, you often can't see that anyway as it really is only taking up the slack in the wire run. I'd say the bounce on that first shot is due to a very enthusiastic pull by the signalman! (i.e. the arm over travelling and then dropping back slightly). If (as I suspect) it's Arley's up main starter then it's not too far from the box and it would very easy to do that.

There are so many things that can affect how a signal comes off and it can often change during a shift due to temperature variation. DIstance from the box obviously has an effect due to the length of wire that needs hauling in before the arm responds. Signals further away will have wire adjusters to avoid ALL the lever movement being used up in taking in the slack (or the signal being pulled off by a contracting wire overnight!). Use of the adjuster will make subtle changes to how the arm responds. The person on the end of the lever can also have an effect (good or bad) on the way the arm moves.

All this is a very long winded way of saying that, IMHO, there is no right or wrong way for a model signal to come off or go back on; with so many influencing factors it really can be left to a matter of personal choice for the individual modeller.

The only exception to this is if arms are power operated (air or motor), there is much more consistency in that - it's also a good deal easier on the operator. I'm about to spend two days of just such an easy life!

All the best,

SVLR Andrew

[ge_rik]

Andrew
Am I right in thinking that when a lower quadrant signal returns to danger (on?), it's largely the weight of the counter balance which dictates its movement rather than the signalman controlling it? Does the signalman tend to let the lever return unaided or does (s)he keep a hold and guide it back more smoothly?

Rik