Tinkercad v Fusion

[Trevor Thompson]

I've had two goes at Fusion 360, yesterday and this morning, with no more success than I had a year or so ago,

Fusion 360 is the gold standard for 3D CAD packages for home use, but it's a bit naïve to think that a program so incredibly powerful can be learnt in a couple of short sessions or just playing with it. You need to invest lots of time watching and going through tutorials.

I found one of the more helpful series is from Product Design online, particularly the
Learn Autodesk Fusion 360 in 30 Days for Complete Beginners series starting at;


Lars Christensen does some good introductions too;
https://www.youtube.com/@cadcamstuff

Autodesk's own series are probably a bit too long winded and aimed at a different audience to us hobbyists.

This is interesting - I have just watched the first of those utube tutorials and I quite like what a saw. There is only one question do you HAVE to store the drawings online? Our broadband is "iffy" at the best of times so that is a big turn off.

Trevor

[-steves-]

I've had two goes at Fusion 360, yesterday and this morning, with no more success than I had a year or so ago,

Fusion 360 is the gold standard for 3D CAD packages for home use, but it's a bit naïve to think that a program so incredibly powerful can be learnt in a couple of short sessions or just playing with it. You need to invest lots of time watching and going through tutorials.

I found one of the more helpful series is from Product Design online, particularly the
Learn Autodesk Fusion 360 in 30 Days for Complete Beginners series starting at;


Lars Christensen does some good introductions too;
https://www.youtube.com/@cadcamstuff

Autodesk's own series are probably a bit too long winded and aimed at a different audience to us hobbyists.

This is interesting - I have just watched the first of those utube tutorials and I quite like what a saw. There is only one question do you HAVE to store the drawings online? Our broadband is "iffy" at the best of times so that is a big turn off.

Trevor

Yes you do have to store your drawings online and you can only have 10 active drawings at one time unless you purchase the software, as a freebie to hobbyists, it does have some restrictions, but I just download what I need and archive the rest.

The tutorials are great, but you do have to download some bits, like the glass bottle before doing them.

It's all really good stuff, if you can remember what tool does what by the end of the first tutorial, from there it just gets more complicated and to be fair, putting it into real world scenarios seems even more difficult. I am sure along with others, we will get there, but compared to TinkerCad it's a MASSIVE learning curve, especially when you want to start adding more than one item on the canvas.

[Paul_in_Ricky]

Yes you do have to store your drawings online and you can only have 10 active drawings at one time unless you purchase the software,

Sorry, but that's wrong.
You can export drawings in their native format and keep them on your local system and then re-load and continue to work on them.
It's just not as convenient as using the online file browser.

It's important to understand that Fusion 360 is a professional CAD package and in that environment files are worked with collaboratively and need to be accessed by many users, so they're stored online available to all in the team.

For casual hobbyists it's pretty trivial to toggle the editable/read only tag on any file in the built in file browser, so we're really not inconvenienced by the 10 file limit anyway. In a professional setting the ten file limit would be untenable.

[-steves-]

Yes you do have to store your drawings online and you can only have 10 active drawings at one time unless you purchase the software,

Sorry, but that's wrong.
You can export drawings in their native format and keep them on your local system and then re-load and continue to work on them.
It's just not as convenient as using the online file browser.

It's important to understand that Fusion 360 is a professional CAD package and in that environment files are worked with collaboratively and need to be accessed by many users, so they're stored online available to all in the team.

For casual hobbyists it's pretty trivial to toggle the editable/read only tag on any file in the built in file browser, so we're really not inconvenienced by the 10 file limit anyway. In a professional setting the ten file limit would be untenable.

Very true, I eat my words I have just tried it all offline and you can still open and save things locally, I didn't know that. I thought it was online only like TinkerCad.

[Paul_in_Ricky]

I didn't know that.

The one thing that's certain is that there's more we don't know than we do.

Even something as ostensibly simple as Tinkercad has features that most people don't explore.
After years with TC, last month I tried the 'send to' command to send a file to Fusion. Revelation; The curves on surfaces all smoothed over like a native Fusion object and it became editable in Fusion. That made some tasks that are effectively impossible in TC trivial in 360, eg filleting two bodies together. Putting an accurate thread into a body.......

360-TC.jpg (121.63 KiB) Viewed 588 times

[-steves-]

I didn't know that.

The one thing that's certain is that there's more we don't know than we do.

Even something as ostensibly simple as Tinkercad has features that most people don't explore.
After years with TC, last month I tried the 'send to' command to send a file to Fusion. Revelation; The curves on surfaces all smoothed over like a native Fusion object and it became editable in Fusion. That made some tasks that are effectively impossible in TC trivial in 360, eg filleting two bodies together. Putting an accurate thread into a body.......
360-TC.jpg

I didn't know that either Very handy to know as the fillet is for me, the one essential thing missing from TinkerCad. I usually make the chimney and boiler in Fusion360 and then import just the chimney and fillet into TinkerCad. I had no idea Fusion can split them again, well worth knowing, thank you

[Paul_in_Ricky]

I didn't know that either Very handy to know as the fillet is for me, the one essential thing missing from TinkerCad.

There's loads of features that make designing a lot easier in 360. However TC does have aspects that are faster and simpler to use, so using both seems ideal if you're not a complete 360 expert or whilst trying to transition to the more powerful program.

One thing to be wary of is that if you create complex components that start to push the total number of parts of the mesh beyond TC's limits you may not be able to re-import them.
As ever, it's the challenge of knowing when to swap between them for greatest functionality, ease and convenience.

[-steves-]

I didn't know that either Very handy to know as the fillet is for me, the one essential thing missing from TinkerCad.

There's loads of features that make designing a lot easier in 360. However TC does have aspects that are faster and simpler to use, so using both seems ideal if you're not a complete 360 expert or whilst trying to transition to the more powerful program.

One thing to be wary of is that if you create complex components that start to push the total number of parts of the mesh beyond TC's limits you may not be able to re-import them.
As ever, it's the challenge of knowing when to swap between them for greatest functionality, ease and convenience.

Completely agree, hence I have been using both (very much more TinkerCad than Fusion) for sometime now. I have just done a send to Fusion from TinkerCad for a boiler and chimney and found it way easier than doing it all in Fusion. As you say, the results are great as it takes away the edges of circles from TinkerCad, result below (obviously I have hidden Body1 and would export what is seen on screen). I just added the fillet and usual and made the hole in the chimney, so much easier. Thank you. I was aware of the limit of TinkerCad "triangles" as I have hit it many times, particularly when dealing with figures.

Fusion.png (712.67 KiB) Viewed 574 times

[ge_rik]

That is great news. I'd noticed the option to export from Tinkercad to Fusion but never tried it. Like Steve, I was frustrated that adding fillets to domes and chimneys was almost impossible in Tinkercad. I have managed it, but it's a heck of a fiddle and the results are a bit of a hit and miss compromise.

Another job to add to the growing list of things to explore......

Rik

[FWLR]

Well I bit the bullet and downloaded Fusion.....it looks so powerful and for me far too difficult to get to grips with. Has many members know I can't spend to long at my laptop anymore and if I did Anne wouldn't be best pleased, so it is Tinkercad for me I'am afraid, I know it has it's limitations and it won't do anything like the more powerful programs and they can produce some incredible models, but I don't get the laptop time now to learn what it's able to do.

[-steves-]

Well I bit the bullet and downloaded Fusion.....it looks so powerful and for me far too difficult to get to grips with. Has many members know I can't spend to long at my laptop anymore and if I did Anne wouldn't be best pleased, so it is Tinkercad for me I'am afraid, I know it has it's limitations and it won't do anything like the more powerful programs and they can produce some incredible models, but I don't get the laptop time now to learn what it's able to do.

Don't worry Rod, I followed the first 3 lessons from the guy that does the Lego brick and despite finishing all 3, I have no idea how I did it and can't remember a thing. I will have to go over them again and again and again to work out what does what before continuing. You are not alone in finding this software difficult to use, in fact I would say you are in the majority from what I have read about it. I guess having no CAD background doesn't help us.

[Paul_in_Ricky]

I was frustrated that adding fillets to domes and chimneys was almost impossible in Tinkercad. I have managed it, but it's a heck of a fiddle and the results are a bit of a hit and miss compromise.

This is where Tinkercad fails. Once you start to build complex models the lack of precision and history makes life frustrating and difficult.
Anything that uses a torus is a nightmare as it's shape varies with size.
No ability to lock sizes makes it too easy to accidentally resize things if you touch the wrong handle.
The alignment function is extremely basic and lacks fundamentals like snap to middle/centre/edge.
Trying to edit and adjust previous sizing becomes a monumental memory task when you need to recall what part did what and what action followed it.

I think some people would find that the time spent learning the basics of Fusion would soon be recouped by increased productivity and better results.

[ge_rik]

This is where Tinkercad fails. Once you start to build complex models the lack of precision and history makes life frustrating and difficult.
Anything that uses a torus is a nightmare as it's shape varies with size.
No ability to lock sizes makes it too easy to accidentally resize things if you touch the wrong handle.
The alignment function is extremely basic and lacks fundamentals like snap to middle/centre/edge.
Trying to edit and adjust previous sizing becomes a monumental memory task when you need to recall what part did what and what action followed it.

I think some people would find that the time spent learning the basics of Fusion would soon be recouped by increased productivity and better results.

Hi
I agree with you about the fillets and torus, but not with the other issues you've mentioned.

It's easy to lock shapes - the drop-down menu for each shape has a lock function

Tink lock.jpg (82.81 KiB) Viewed 496 times

Grouped shapes can similarly be locked and complex shapes can be saved as Favourites and locked.

The alignment tool includes snap to middle and edges in all three planes - and is dead easy to use. Clicking on any of the shapes while in align mode will cause any of the other shapes to align to it.

Tink align.jpg (58.66 KiB) Viewed 496 times

And from my recollection of Sketchup, adjusting and editing elements is no more complex in Tinkercad. If necessary, shapes can be colour coded as a model is created, though I've never rally found it to be a problem.

Of course, I am biased - but then so might you be. The way I look at it is that we all learn in different ways - what seems easy and straightforward for one can be a complete dead end for another. Having tried Sketchup and OpenCad, I found Tinkercad to be a blessed relief. The learning curve was shallow and what really clinched it for me was that every model I have exported from TinkerCad could be sliced without any further tweaking - it's never once produced a non manifold shape which is what I got constantly from Sketchup.

Rik

[-steves-]

The only down side to locking something in TinkerCad is that not only can't you resize it (the way I would expect), but you also can't move it without unlocking it, unless as you say you make it a favorite and lock the scaling. I use the favorite and lock the scaling for motors and gears etc as their size never changes.

The big downside to Tinkercad is that if you accidentally drag on the wrong bit you resize a shape(s) and you didn't mean to, you actually meant to move it. I have found this to be a nightmare as if you realise you did it, all is good an you can undo it, but if you don't realise it until later, you have ended up building something around a wrong size object and then everything needs redoing. By then I have often printed it and sit there wondering what I have done wrong, sometimes, it's only a mm or so, but often it's some ridiculous 0.87mm or something daft. Does my nut in.

I have never really worked out the alignment tool (I do realise I should) and generally do everything by the ruler tool and how far away things are from a given point, either using mid or endpoint, depending on what's needed. I usually build everything around a mid point as I find it easier. Horses for courses as they say.

[Paul_in_Ricky]

It's easy to lock shapes - the drop-down menu for each shape has a lock function

Not what I was referring to. That locks the item, not only dimensionally, but also in space. You can't create an object, lock it's dimension then move it's location or duplicate it easily. The workaround is having to create it as a 'my creation', then dragging it on an individual basis into the workspace each time you need an instance. All rather clumsy.

The alignment tool includes snap to middle and edges in all three planes - and is dead easy to use. Clicking on any of the shapes while in align mode will cause any of the other shapes to align to it.

You're missing my point. It only aligns to the outer boundaries of objects. This becomes frustrating once you've started to build a model by groups of primaries.
As an example, earlier in the thread I posted the illustration of the two cylinders joined. If you want to add another body centred on either cylinder axis the align tool is no help as the tool only aligns to the overall centre of the group, not the cylinder centre.

[ge_rik]

OK. Tinkercad might be clunky, but it does practically every job I ask of it. If I want to align a shape to something in a group, I ungroup it, align it and regroup. Not too arduous. I've produced a fair number of very acceptable models with its basic tools. So, for the moment, why should I bother spending time learning to use something more complicated? I spent weeks, possibly months, developing skills with SketchUp only to find that 80% of the models were unprintable (as was my language). Maybe Fusion is more reliable than sketchup. But I don't want to waste time finding out.

Now, back to Rod's enquiry. I get the impression that all he wants to do is create some basic models and also to be able to chop up other people's models so they will fit on his print bed. They are both achievable with Tinkercad, with a bit of tinkering. No doubt, chopping up models is easier with Fusion. So perhaps he should give it a try. Certainly, I'd assume that learning the basics of Tinkercad are far easier than Fusion. It just depends on how tricky that is.

As I said before. What suits one person may not suit another.

Rik

[Paul_in_Ricky]

why should I bother spending time learning to use something more complicated?

A few messages back you said "it's a heck of a fiddle and the results are a bit of a hit and miss compromise."

I'm just highlighting Tinkercad's limitations and have suggested how round tripping to Fusion can make things easier, more accurate and add extra options unavailable in Tinkercad. You may not want that, others reading this may benefit from the insights.

Yes, it's going involve a little effort to learn some basics, but you really don't have to wade too deep into it to get significant benefits when used in conjunction with Tinkercad.

If I want to align a shape to something in a group, I ungroup it, align it and regroup. Not too arduous

Maybe for simple groups, but once you start to having to ungroup multiple groupings it can be become VERY involved and difficult to keep track of. Regroup in the wrong order and things get very messy and tricky to unpick and restore.

[ge_rik]

This discussion was started in the "Using TinkerCad" section but has now been transferred here to keep the original thread more focused on its title.

Rik

[FWLR]

Well I bit the bullet and downloaded Fusion.....it looks so powerful and for me far too difficult to get to grips with. Has many members know I can't spend to long at my laptop anymore and if I did Anne wouldn't be best pleased, so it is Tinkercad for me I'am afraid, I know it has it's limitations and it won't do anything like the more powerful programs and they can produce some incredible models, but I don't get the laptop time now to learn what it's able to do.

Don't worry Rod, I followed the first 3 lessons from the guy that does the Lego brick and despite finishing all 3, I have no idea how I did it and can't remember a thing. I will have to go over them again and again and again to work out what does what before continuing. You are not alone in finding this software difficult to use, in fact I would say you are in the majority from what I have read about it. I guess having no CAD background doesn't help us.

Have you I link for that Steve, or is it in the Tinkercad program where the Lego bricks are.

[-steves-]

Well I bit the bullet and downloaded Fusion.....it looks so powerful and for me far too difficult to get to grips with. Has many members know I can't spend to long at my laptop anymore and if I did Anne wouldn't be best pleased, so it is Tinkercad for me I'am afraid, I know it has it's limitations and it won't do anything like the more powerful programs and they can produce some incredible models, but I don't get the laptop time now to learn what it's able to do.

Don't worry Rod, I followed the first 3 lessons from the guy that does the Lego brick and despite finishing all 3, I have no idea how I did it and can't remember a thing. I will have to go over them again and again and again to work out what does what before continuing. You are not alone in finding this software difficult to use, in fact I would say you are in the majority from what I have read about it. I guess having no CAD background doesn't help us.

Have you I link for that Steve, or is it in the Tinkercad program where the Lego bricks are.

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