Any ideas as to the origin of this loco?

[ge_rik]

Over the weekend, I made a trip to the Etruria Bone and Flint MIll in Stoke to see their beam engine in action. Whilst there, I picked up a couple of books - one entitled "Stone and Steam in the Black Mountains" by David Tipper. It outlines the building of Grwyne Fawr Dam and Reservoir which included the construction of a three foot narrow gauge railway to serve the construction site. Interestingly, the railway was built along an existing roadway (a bit like the Darjeeling Himalayan Rly) and so had quite tortuous gradients (inc 1:9).

The writer doesn't include much info about the locos and stock but there is a very fine drawing of one of the line's original locos - Anita - which I'd love to model

Anita.jpg (463.32 KiB) Viewed 42269 times

Any ideas? It does look a bit Hunsletty, but I might be wrong.

Rik

[philipy]

I think it looks like a Manning Wardle F Class, although the dropped footplate under the cab is a bit odd. However the F class were standard gauge, so if this one was narrow gauge, maybe it was modified at the build stage, MW did do special orders on occassion and they did a range of classes that looked very similar - the H Class for example..
I once built a P4 model of a std gauge one as used on the Wantage Tramway, for a project that never came to fruition.

[Phil.P]

It looks very Ivor the Engine, to me?

So has something of a Peckett, about it to me..

Phil.P

[GTB]

I think it looks like a Manning Wardle F Class, although the dropped footplate under the cab is a bit odd.

I thought it looked like a Manning Wardle as well, great minds think alike......

I found it listed in Fred Harman's book 'The Locomotives Built by Manning Wardle and Company, Volume 1, Narrow Gauge'. Builders no. 1630 was classed as a 'Special' and there's a builders photo in the book, but no G/A. The drawing Rik found isn't particularly accurate, as the proportions are screwed up, especially below the footplate.

Delivered in 1904 to the Elliot Metal Co., who had a copper smelter in Burry Port. Sold after 1912 to the Abertillery & District Water Board. I would assume that the smelter had some clearance issues which is common with such places and the dropped footplate was used to reduce the overall height of the loco.

Regards,
Graeme

[ge_rik]

Thanks for the info, chaps. If it is based on a standard gauge design, I might be able to track down a plan drawing and adapt it (I'm hoping), otherwise It might end up as one of my 'inspired by the original' models.

Judging by the gradient profile for the line, the drivers will have had their work cut out.

gradient profile.jpg (393.2 KiB) Viewed 42230 times

Apparently, there was a sharp curve at the foot of the one in nine gradient, just to make life interesting.

Rik

[ge_rik]

Doing a bit of research and I'm assured the smaller Manning Wardles were similar to Hunslets ..... I feel vindicated in my original assumptions.
https://www.railwayarchive.org.uk/the-h ... comparison


Rik

[ge_rik]

I wonder if this is a close match to Anita

https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com ... i-BPbmmKB/

Rik
PS - Actually, the builders plate says its build number is 1630 and the caption says it was delivered to Elliots Metals .....

[philipy]

I wonder if this is a close match to Anita

https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com ... i-BPbmmKB/

Rik
PS - Actually, the builders plate says its build number is 1630 and the caption says it was delivered to Elliots Metals .....

Actually, the caption also says that it was delivered to Elliots as ANITA So that is definitely your baby!

All you need now is to track down the works drawings.

[GTB]

Doing a bit of research and I'm assured the smaller Manning Wardles were similar to Hunslets .....

Well they both made small steam locos with the same no. of driving wheels........

About the same level of similarity as a Ford Escort and a Vauxhall Viva.

Graeme

[Andrew]

That's a lovely loco, and it'll fit your line perfectly Rik! Sounds like the real thing worked very hard for a living!

As an aside, Philip, I'm intrigued by your abandoned Wantage Tramway plans - it's a little line always appealed to me. I might have to dig out my Wild Swan book on it later...

[ge_rik]

About the same level of similarity as a Ford Escort and a Vauxhall Viva.

Graeme

Funny you should say that ........

Rik

[philipy]

As an aside, Philip, I'm intrigued by your abandoned Wantage Tramway plans - it's a little line always appealed to me. I might have to dig out my Wild Swan book on it later...

Not wishing to derail Rik's thread but it was going to be a group effort within the club that I was in many years ago. We planned the Upper & Lower yards with and operating well in the gap between. Got as far as the big loco shed,train shed and offices for the upper yard, plus gas managers house, plus 2 loco's and one tramcar, but then the three of us all moved away from that club for different reasons and the whole thing just sort of died. My MW 0-4-0 was repainted into MSWJ colours because by coincidence they had one in the PW Dept, and it then ran on my Marlborough layout.

[Andrew]

As an aside, Philip, I'm intrigued by your abandoned Wantage Tramway plans - it's a little line always appealed to me. I might have to dig out my Wild Swan book on it later...

Not wishing to derail Rik's thread but it was going to be a group effort within the club that I was in many years ago. We planned the Upper & Lower yards with and operating well in the gap between. Got as far as the big loco shed,train shed and offices for the upper yard, plus gas managers house, plus 2 loco's and one tramcar, but then the three of us all moved away from that club for different reasons and the whole thing just sort of died. My MW 0-4-0 was repainted into MSWJ colours because by coincidence they had one in the PW Dept, and it then ran on my Marlborough layout.

That sounds great, such a shame it didn't happen. I've often thought the train shed would look great on an NG line, but I think part of the tramways appeal was that it wasn't NG, just looked it!

No more, I promise, back to your Manning Wardle/Vauxhall Viva Rik!

[ge_rik]

In the absence of any drawings, I'll have to go off this photo.

Graeme, does your book mention any key dimensions such as the diameter of the drivers?

Rik

[philipy]

Rik,
Can't remember where I got them from ( think it could have been a Wantage Tramway book) but I must have drawings of the F class. I'm away atm but be back home tomorrow and I'll rout them out and let you have them. Should give you something to go on with luck.

[GTB]

Graeme, does your book mention any key dimensions such as the diameter of the drivers?

The book only quotes the driver dia. as 2' 3" and cylinders as 9.5" x 14", no other dimensions.

Using the builders photo, the wheelbase scales out at just over 4', probably 4' 1.5". Height calculates out at 8' 9" and length over headstocks at 14' 8". The wheels aren't the typical Manning Wardle design, but I suspect that what made it a 'special' was the wheel and cylinder size and maybe the reduced height.

The photo is the builders photo. in MW's standard lining, rather than photographic grey.

Regards,
Graeme

ps. The 'similar' 3' gauge Hunslet locos. used for reservoir construction projects had 2' 6" dia. wheels, 9" x 14" cylinders, a 4' 6" wheelbase and a height of 9'.

Anita-1a.jpg (152.72 KiB) Viewed 42127 times

[ge_rik]

That's really helpful, thanks Graeme. Once I've got one dimension I can use it to work out the others.

Presumably, the slightly taller similar locos don't have the dropped footplate?

Rik

[Andrew]

That Manning Wardle lining's quite something!

I've just noticed a couple of nice details, namely the back of the cab overhanging the rear bufferbeam, and the bufferbeams themselves, which appear to have curved (concave) cutaways instead of straight corners...

[ge_rik]

That Manning Wardle lining's quite something!

I've just noticed a couple of nice details, namely the back of the cab overhanging the rear bufferbeam, and the bufferbeams themselves, which appear to have curved (concave) cutaways instead of straight corners...

Looks like the Steelworks and Abertillery Water Board had retained the lining (if that drawing is to be believed) but it had disappeared by the time the contractors had got hold if it.

Quite amazing how many times this loco changed hands.

Rik

[GTB]

Presumably, the slightly taller similar locos don't have the dropped footplate?

Sorry, I thought I'd checked the numbers before I hit the post button. The driving wheel dia. on Anita was 2' 4"......

Unlike some builders, if their catalogue is anything to go by, Hunslet don't seem to have made a habit of lowering the cab floor. My Hunslet is about the same size as Anita and is based on one used on reservoir building contracts.

Regards,
Graeme

IMG_0624.jpeg (213.24 KiB) Viewed 42093 times