Newcomer Roundhouse Billy Build
Re: Newcomer Roundhouse Billy Build
I think I’ve discovered where I went wrong, from looking at photos on internet (and you can just about see the solution on the Roundhouse photo, from the back, posted above).
It looks like the hinges aren’t supposed to be flush with the inside of the cab walls; they need to ‘float’. This will keep the ends of the hinges inside the flange that I was having problems with. When they say that these bolts should be ‘slightly loose’ they actually mean very loose.
I’m not sure I like the idea of the roof being that wobbly, but I can probably secure it a bit more by placing some packing washers between the inside of the cab wall and the outside of the hinge slots. This will hold the roof in position but will still allow the hinge ends to clear the flange.
The slight material removal really isn’t very noticeable face-to-face, but I have emailed Roundhouse to see if I can get a replacement cabin front piece so that I can re-assemble it and try again.
It looks like the hinges aren’t supposed to be flush with the inside of the cab walls; they need to ‘float’. This will keep the ends of the hinges inside the flange that I was having problems with. When they say that these bolts should be ‘slightly loose’ they actually mean very loose.
I’m not sure I like the idea of the roof being that wobbly, but I can probably secure it a bit more by placing some packing washers between the inside of the cab wall and the outside of the hinge slots. This will hold the roof in position but will still allow the hinge ends to clear the flange.
The slight material removal really isn’t very noticeable face-to-face, but I have emailed Roundhouse to see if I can get a replacement cabin front piece so that I can re-assemble it and try again.
Re: Newcomer Roundhouse Billy Build
I've not built any of the Roundhouse kits, and I'm not sure if I would want to, but one feature I am not happy with on any of my steamers is the way the cab roof fits. I have changed mine to be held in place by magnets. This requires soldering a small piece of steel to the cab wall, and epoxying a rare earth magnet to the roof part. I have found one magnet is sufficient to hold the roof firmly in place. Maybe a solution to consider? Well done so far anyway - if you are unsure of anything in your build, this is certainly the place to get expert advice.
Phil
Sporadic Garden Railer who's inconsistencies know no bounds
My Line - https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... 41&t=11077
Sporadic Garden Railer who's inconsistencies know no bounds
My Line - https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... 41&t=11077
Re: Newcomer Roundhouse Billy Build
The build has stalled for the time being.
Surprisingly, considering my previous dealings with them, Roundhouse hasn't yet replied to my request to buy a replacement cab front.
And Minuteman might as well be on another planet so I still have no idea if/when my paint might arrive.
I did order some little hex head bolts (the ones in the photo are M2) which I plan to use instead of the Roundhouse cheesehead ones. And I couldn't get any cleanser without bleach locally, so I ended up ordering this 3m cleaner which has now arrived.
The next problem is the heat and humidity in Texas might be a bit high for spraying at the moment. If they drop, then I might try and get a primer coat on some of the parts as a paint test.
Surprisingly, considering my previous dealings with them, Roundhouse hasn't yet replied to my request to buy a replacement cab front.
And Minuteman might as well be on another planet so I still have no idea if/when my paint might arrive.
I did order some little hex head bolts (the ones in the photo are M2) which I plan to use instead of the Roundhouse cheesehead ones. And I couldn't get any cleanser without bleach locally, so I ended up ordering this 3m cleaner which has now arrived.
The next problem is the heat and humidity in Texas might be a bit high for spraying at the moment. If they drop, then I might try and get a primer coat on some of the parts as a paint test.
Re: Newcomer Roundhouse Billy Build
This isn't my first time spraying, but I usually paint composites so metal is all new to me!
I started by making a small spray booth out of cardboard box (the one that the loco was delivered in ) with a drop sheet plastic insert.
The buffer beams were sanded with 500 grit wet and dry, then cleaned with the 3m cleanser and rinsed; these were then primed with the Rustoleum etch primer and baked at 180f for 30 mins.
I'm not sure if it makes any difference but I noticed that the Rustoleum primer doesn't mention acid etch, so I have ordered some U-POL #8 for the brass parts, but this should be fine for the chassis.
So far so good; now I just have to check that the Rustoleum primer is compatible with the Scalecoat 1 top coat (when it arrives).
I started by making a small spray booth out of cardboard box (the one that the loco was delivered in ) with a drop sheet plastic insert.
The buffer beams were sanded with 500 grit wet and dry, then cleaned with the 3m cleanser and rinsed; these were then primed with the Rustoleum etch primer and baked at 180f for 30 mins.
I'm not sure if it makes any difference but I noticed that the Rustoleum primer doesn't mention acid etch, so I have ordered some U-POL #8 for the brass parts, but this should be fine for the chassis.
So far so good; now I just have to check that the Rustoleum primer is compatible with the Scalecoat 1 top coat (when it arrives).
Re: Newcomer Roundhouse Billy Build
Though the spraying looks good, a word of warning about using a small box as a spraying booth. As you spray inside the booth, the air inside has no easy escape, the the spray volume could then you circulate as opposed to coat the surface - difficult to explain, but the spry mist has a problem penetrating in to the booth. A larger box is the solution which front area is larger than the spray mist
Re: Newcomer Roundhouse Billy Build
Thanks for the reply.
It might not be clear in the photo (and it might not entirely guard against what you are saying), but I have made little hangers that poke through the top of the box and the buffers weren’t at the back/bottom when they were being sprayed. I didn’t have any problem getting the paint onto them (in fact, they were being blown around by the force of the spray!
I will certainly bear this in mind when spraying the body though.
It might not be clear in the photo (and it might not entirely guard against what you are saying), but I have made little hangers that poke through the top of the box and the buffers weren’t at the back/bottom when they were being sprayed. I didn’t have any problem getting the paint onto them (in fact, they were being blown around by the force of the spray!
I will certainly bear this in mind when spraying the body though.
Re: Newcomer Roundhouse Billy Build
After a week's holiday in the UK, I am back at it.
One benefit of being in the UK is that I managed to get some parts that aren't available in the US. My favourite, are these steps from SwiftSixteen, which are so much better than the fold out part of the cabin floor that forms the steps on the kit.
I also bought some riveted couplers from SwiftSixteen to replace the kit buffers, although I'm not sure if I should have just stuck with the original ones; these will be an easy swap back if I change my mind later.
One disappointment was the running board set that I purchased. These were pretty poorly made so I had to send them back .
I'm still waiting for my paints from Minuteman. I'm getting close to cancelling that order and buying different paints from somewhere else.
One benefit of being in the UK is that I managed to get some parts that aren't available in the US. My favourite, are these steps from SwiftSixteen, which are so much better than the fold out part of the cabin floor that forms the steps on the kit.
I also bought some riveted couplers from SwiftSixteen to replace the kit buffers, although I'm not sure if I should have just stuck with the original ones; these will be an easy swap back if I change my mind later.
One disappointment was the running board set that I purchased. These were pretty poorly made so I had to send them back .
I'm still waiting for my paints from Minuteman. I'm getting close to cancelling that order and buying different paints from somewhere else.
Re: Newcomer Roundhouse Billy Build
The new cab front has arrived, although the box looks a bit big. It almost looks big enough to have a Katie kit in it
I have removed the old cab front and soldered on the replacement. I'm a little disappointed as it's not as tidy as it was before, but it will do. Roundhouse confirmed that they have also experienced the 'problem' that I had with the hinge fouling on the inside of the cab front. Their solution was also to bend the end of the tabs, but the bit I missed was that this can only be a tiny amount or it will prevent the roof from lifting. I have another thought on how to make this neater and I will see how it works when I put it all together.
I have also started to use 'Brass Black' on the frame spacers. I have done 2 of them so far and they look ok, so I will do this with all of them. Paint might have been easier, but I wanted to make sure all of the drilled holes remained clear, and I wanted to see how the process works for other parts later on.
I had also purchased some decorative safety chains from SwiftSixteen. The instructions call for them to be soldered or glued in place. However. the stem of the casting looked quite close to being suitable for cutting a M3 thread, so I gave it a go and it seems to have worked. I will try to use these instead of the M3 bolts that came with the kit, to bolt the buffers and buffer beam overlays on.
I have removed the old cab front and soldered on the replacement. I'm a little disappointed as it's not as tidy as it was before, but it will do. Roundhouse confirmed that they have also experienced the 'problem' that I had with the hinge fouling on the inside of the cab front. Their solution was also to bend the end of the tabs, but the bit I missed was that this can only be a tiny amount or it will prevent the roof from lifting. I have another thought on how to make this neater and I will see how it works when I put it all together.
I have also started to use 'Brass Black' on the frame spacers. I have done 2 of them so far and they look ok, so I will do this with all of them. Paint might have been easier, but I wanted to make sure all of the drilled holes remained clear, and I wanted to see how the process works for other parts later on.
I had also purchased some decorative safety chains from SwiftSixteen. The instructions call for them to be soldered or glued in place. However. the stem of the casting looked quite close to being suitable for cutting a M3 thread, so I gave it a go and it seems to have worked. I will try to use these instead of the M3 bolts that came with the kit, to bolt the buffers and buffer beam overlays on.
- Old Man Aaron
- Trainee Driver
- Posts: 824
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Re: Newcomer Roundhouse Billy Build
Ingenious way of fitting those chain mounts.
Regards,
Aaron - Scum Class Works
Aaron - Scum Class Works
Re: Newcomer Roundhouse Billy Build
I'm getting closer to starting to bolt things together (at last). The frames and cab floor are primed; I've been told that the Scalecoat paint is finally getting ready to be boxed and shipped so, hopefully, that will arrive soon.
I have used the Brass Black on the lubricator. I'm not sure how durable it will be, but it looks pretty good.
The black M3 hex bolts that I ordered have also arrived. The M3 slotted head bolts in the photo are the ones supplied by Roundhouse for the frames and the black hex head bolts are the ones that I will be using. The heads are a little large but they should be ok. The smaller, brass, hex head bolts are the ones supplied by Roundhouse as an optional extra and I believe that these may be the ones that they use on the buffer beams of the factory-built models.
I have used the Brass Black on the lubricator. I'm not sure how durable it will be, but it looks pretty good.
The black M3 hex bolts that I ordered have also arrived. The M3 slotted head bolts in the photo are the ones supplied by Roundhouse for the frames and the black hex head bolts are the ones that I will be using. The heads are a little large but they should be ok. The smaller, brass, hex head bolts are the ones supplied by Roundhouse as an optional extra and I believe that these may be the ones that they use on the buffer beams of the factory-built models.
- -steves-
- Administrator
- Posts: 2445
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- Location: Cambridge & Peterborough
Re: Newcomer Roundhouse Billy Build
I have only just caught up with this thread.
I would just like to add that I built a Roundhouse Katie (essentially the same thing) about 5ish years ago and I had exactly the same issues with the roof lifting / hinging mechanism. I found it a proper PITA and just tinkered until I got it working the best I could. No idea if it was right or not, but eventually it opened and sat flat with "some fettling" I, like yourself, thought the instructions on this point were somewhat lacking and had room for improvement so clearly it wasn't just me
I would just like to add that I built a Roundhouse Katie (essentially the same thing) about 5ish years ago and I had exactly the same issues with the roof lifting / hinging mechanism. I found it a proper PITA and just tinkered until I got it working the best I could. No idea if it was right or not, but eventually it opened and sat flat with "some fettling" I, like yourself, thought the instructions on this point were somewhat lacking and had room for improvement so clearly it wasn't just me
The buck stops here .......
Ditton Meadow Light Railway (DMLR)
Member of Peterborough and District Association
http://peterborough.16mm.org.uk/
Ditton Meadow Light Railway (DMLR)
Member of Peterborough and District Association
http://peterborough.16mm.org.uk/
Re: Newcomer Roundhouse Billy Build
I'm still waiting on the paint and I might have to cancel my order with Mimuteman. I was told it was in line to be shipped a week ago but still nothing
In the mean time I've been priming the brass parts but nothing worth updating here yet. It has given me the chance to do some other, less urgent, bits including this compressor connection so that I can test the loco on air if I want to.
The fitting that screws to the loco and the pipe were bought from Roundhouse. The 1/8 BSP brass fitting was bought from ebay and drilled out to fit the tube, and an Iwata quick disconnect was added so that I can attach it to my compressor airline hose without having to unscrew anything.
In the mean time I've been priming the brass parts but nothing worth updating here yet. It has given me the chance to do some other, less urgent, bits including this compressor connection so that I can test the loco on air if I want to.
The fitting that screws to the loco and the pipe were bought from Roundhouse. The 1/8 BSP brass fitting was bought from ebay and drilled out to fit the tube, and an Iwata quick disconnect was added so that I can attach it to my compressor airline hose without having to unscrew anything.
Re: Newcomer Roundhouse Billy Build
Well the paint has finally arrived. The next problem is the temperature is forecast to be above 100f for the next 2 weeks, so there might be another delay
Re: Newcomer Roundhouse Billy Build
No posts for a while but progress is being made.
The paint has gone on ok, but not as good as I would like. The satin finish isn't quite uniform but it will do. I tried to brush paint the wheel hubs with Testors enamel but it was awful, so I removed the paint, masked and painted them instead; they now look a lot better.
The build has been ok, but I'm not sure I will do things in the same order when I put my next one together. For example, it's much easier to put the superheater T on before you bolt the cylinders to the frames.
The only issue that I came across was the weigh shaft wasn't straight and need to be bent back. This in itself was fine, and I'm not sure if the bending had anything to do with it, but when it was all assembled the weigh shaft fouled the expansion link pivot pins. This was solved by using a dremel cut-off disk to shorten the pivot pins.
I'm still not happy with the bending of the exhaust pipes but hopefully they will do for now.
I have tested it on air and it does run, but I'm not 100% sure about the valve timing. Once I've got the boiler on and it's running on it's own steam then I'll have another look at it.
I'm currently on another pause as the temp in Texas has been over 100F for the last couple of weeks, and is forecast to be the same for the rest of July, so it's a bit hot to be spraying. I might make a start on the George body tomorrow (which arrived today) whilst waiting for it to cool down a bit.
I've been mulling over what paint to use for the boiler. The Rust-Oleum High Heat paint (2000F) needs to be cured at quite a high temperature and I wasn't sure about that. The BBQ paint doesn't recommend a primer. In the end, I have ordered some Rust-Oleum engine primer and enamel, which is supposed to be good for 600F. That should be easier to cure and hopefully will be good enough; time will tell.
The paint has gone on ok, but not as good as I would like. The satin finish isn't quite uniform but it will do. I tried to brush paint the wheel hubs with Testors enamel but it was awful, so I removed the paint, masked and painted them instead; they now look a lot better.
The build has been ok, but I'm not sure I will do things in the same order when I put my next one together. For example, it's much easier to put the superheater T on before you bolt the cylinders to the frames.
The only issue that I came across was the weigh shaft wasn't straight and need to be bent back. This in itself was fine, and I'm not sure if the bending had anything to do with it, but when it was all assembled the weigh shaft fouled the expansion link pivot pins. This was solved by using a dremel cut-off disk to shorten the pivot pins.
I'm still not happy with the bending of the exhaust pipes but hopefully they will do for now.
I have tested it on air and it does run, but I'm not 100% sure about the valve timing. Once I've got the boiler on and it's running on it's own steam then I'll have another look at it.
I'm currently on another pause as the temp in Texas has been over 100F for the last couple of weeks, and is forecast to be the same for the rest of July, so it's a bit hot to be spraying. I might make a start on the George body tomorrow (which arrived today) whilst waiting for it to cool down a bit.
I've been mulling over what paint to use for the boiler. The Rust-Oleum High Heat paint (2000F) needs to be cured at quite a high temperature and I wasn't sure about that. The BBQ paint doesn't recommend a primer. In the end, I have ordered some Rust-Oleum engine primer and enamel, which is supposed to be good for 600F. That should be easier to cure and hopefully will be good enough; time will tell.
Re: Newcomer Roundhouse Billy Build
Body soldered, ready for final clean before priming
Re: Newcomer Roundhouse Billy Build
This is very interesting. Are you building a "George" AND a "Billy"? Or are you building your own version incorporating parts of each? I see you have a "George" body there, and in your picture of the assembled chassis, the weigh shaft is curved, like on a "George" or "Katie". The one on "Billy" is usually straight.
Re: Newcomer Roundhouse Billy Build
Thank you so much! I was beginning to think that nobody was reading this thread so I popped that in there to see if anyone was paying attention The picture of my completed Billy body is on page 2 of this thread.Keith S wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:03 am This is very interesting. Are you building a "George" AND a "Billy"? Or are you building your own version incorporating parts of each? I see you have a "George" body there, and in your picture of the assembled chassis, the weigh shaft is curved, like on a "George" or "Katie". The one on "Billy" is usually straight.
I am indeed building a Billy and a George. I was hoping to wait for the Billy to be complete before I started the next one (so I don't get the parts mixed up) but, as the temps here in Texas are ridiculous (and way too hot to paint) I am running out of jobs to do. The George body arrived last week so I decided to get ahead and put that together. It went a lot quicker after my Billy experience; it's not perfect but it's ok.
I think it could be some time until it is cool enough for me to start painting, so I am trying to find things to keep me busy!
Re: Newcomer Roundhouse Billy Build
Ah-ha, I thought something was going on. I like "George". I have a "Billy" that I made, but have extensively modified to look a certain way. If they'd had "George" at the time, that's the one I WOULD have built.
Don't worry, I am probably not the only one who reads every word of every "live steam" post, but usually I only pipe up if I have a question.
Nice work, and about the chassis running on air, I have read that they run different on steam anyway, because everything expands when it gets to working temperature. I think you're right to leave final valve adjustment till it's ready to steam. That's what I did, and even hough I scorched my fingers once or twice, it was easy enough.
Don't worry, I am probably not the only one who reads every word of every "live steam" post, but usually I only pipe up if I have a question.
Nice work, and about the chassis running on air, I have read that they run different on steam anyway, because everything expands when it gets to working temperature. I think you're right to leave final valve adjustment till it's ready to steam. That's what I did, and even hough I scorched my fingers once or twice, it was easy enough.
Re: Newcomer Roundhouse Billy Build
I like all of the 0-4-0 Roundhouse models but this is possibly my favourite body available for them.
It is a 'Simply 7/8' Henry body. The one in the photo is a bit of a hybrid with a Katie/George boiler but with the Billy smokebox. I think this looks really good so I've ordered the body kit for a future build; this will be a way off yet though as I need to pause a little before I buy yet another Roundhouse chassis/boiler!
It is a 'Simply 7/8' Henry body. The one in the photo is a bit of a hybrid with a Katie/George boiler but with the Billy smokebox. I think this looks really good so I've ordered the body kit for a future build; this will be a way off yet though as I need to pause a little before I buy yet another Roundhouse chassis/boiler!
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