Buying a 3D printer
- GAP
- Trainee Driver
- Posts: 690
- Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:34 pm
- Location: Bundaberg QLD Australia
- Contact:
Re: Buying a 3D printer
Well the Ender was assembled and the Z axis limit and bed levelling carried out; Pass sort of,
Next came the loading of the Creality slicer to my laptop; Fail (Did work on another one)
Then came the loading of the filament and getting it to flow through the nozzle; Fail (Nozzle was blocked, got that cleared)
Up next was to do the test print of the dog file that is on the SD Card; Fail (filament does not stick to the bed and all I end up with is a load of string).
At the moment the printer is in the shed being ignored till I figure out what I have done wrong (troubleshooting chart in the manual is of no help).
Any ideas/suggestions listened to.
Next came the loading of the Creality slicer to my laptop; Fail (Did work on another one)
Then came the loading of the filament and getting it to flow through the nozzle; Fail (Nozzle was blocked, got that cleared)
Up next was to do the test print of the dog file that is on the SD Card; Fail (filament does not stick to the bed and all I end up with is a load of string).
At the moment the printer is in the shed being ignored till I figure out what I have done wrong (troubleshooting chart in the manual is of no help).
Any ideas/suggestions listened to.
Graeme
From the home of the Ringbalin Light Railway
https://ringbalin-light-railway.blogspo ... -page.html
From the home of the Ringbalin Light Railway
https://ringbalin-light-railway.blogspo ... -page.html
Re: Buying a 3D printer
First thing to check is the nozzle height above the bed. If the gap is too big, you end up with exactly what you've described ( we've all been there, done that...wanna buy a T-shirt? ).
2ndly, I don't know specifically on Enders, but have you got warming on for the build plate? It is often said that PLA doesn't need a heated bed but I've found a temp of 60 deg for the first layer and drop to 50 deg for the rest of the print helps good adhesion.
Third thing is that you could try Pritt Stick, smeared on the bed. I don't personally like doing it although it does help. The reason I don't like it is that over time it builds up and you get a very rough print surface.
Philip
Re: Buying a 3D printer
I agree with everything Philip has suggested.
Bed-levelling is an acquired skill and takes a few goes to get it right. Does Ender suggest using a sheet of paper to act as a feeler gauge between the nozzle and the bed? Getting that right can take a few goes - as you adjust one screw you find it has altered another you have already done and so you may need to go around each of them two or three times making fine adjustments.
The Pritt layer only works if you are printing directly on to a glass bed. Does the Ender come with a removable magnetic mat? They're supposed to be very good for the first 50 or so prints and then begin to lose their effectiveness and so you may then end up printing directly on to the glass. I don't think Pritt will work on top of the mat, but others may correct me.
I remove each old layer of Pritt with a wide chisel before putting on a new layer. This avoids the build-up of Pritt but does add another chore to the printing process (and can create a lot of dust which I then Hoover away).
Rik
Bed-levelling is an acquired skill and takes a few goes to get it right. Does Ender suggest using a sheet of paper to act as a feeler gauge between the nozzle and the bed? Getting that right can take a few goes - as you adjust one screw you find it has altered another you have already done and so you may need to go around each of them two or three times making fine adjustments.
The Pritt layer only works if you are printing directly on to a glass bed. Does the Ender come with a removable magnetic mat? They're supposed to be very good for the first 50 or so prints and then begin to lose their effectiveness and so you may then end up printing directly on to the glass. I don't think Pritt will work on top of the mat, but others may correct me.
I remove each old layer of Pritt with a wide chisel before putting on a new layer. This avoids the build-up of Pritt but does add another chore to the printing process (and can create a lot of dust which I then Hoover away).
Rik
- GAP
- Trainee Driver
- Posts: 690
- Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:34 pm
- Location: Bundaberg QLD Australia
- Contact:
Re: Buying a 3D printer
Phil and Rikphilipy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:29 amFirst thing to check is the nozzle height above the bed. If the gap is too big, you end up with exactly what you've described ( we've all been there, done that...wanna buy a T-shirt? ).
2ndly, I don't know specifically on Enders, but have you got warming on for the build plate? It is often said that PLA doesn't need a heated bed but I've found a temp of 60 deg for the first layer and drop to 50 deg for the rest of the print helps good adhesion.
Third thing is that you could try Pritt Stick, smeared on the bed. I don't personally like doing it although it does help. The reason I don't like it is that over time it builds up and you get a very rough print surface.
Z axis end stop was adjusted 3 times so nozzle was about 1mm above plate.
The "leveling" with the printer paper was done at least 10 times, I spent nearly 2 hours trying to get a print started.
The bed was preheated to 60C with nozzle at 200C, a setting in the Ender "prepare" menu
The bed seems to be closer than 1mm to the plate.
If I adjust one side of the plate till it is "just right" when I move over to the other side the nozzle hits the plate till I adjust the opposite side, the same for the front to back adjustment.
I just go round and round and adjust each one in turn over and over as any change of one screw throws out all the others.
Graeme
From the home of the Ringbalin Light Railway
https://ringbalin-light-railway.blogspo ... -page.html
From the home of the Ringbalin Light Railway
https://ringbalin-light-railway.blogspo ... -page.html
-
- Trainee Driver
- Posts: 985
- Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:30 pm
- Location: South West Wales
Re: Buying a 3D printer
I don't know anything about types of printer other than the one I have. But printing with ABS requires specific conditions: bed plate heated to 100 degrees C, extruder at 230 degrees, and a FULLY enclosed build area. I suggest that the printer you have is not suitable for printing ABS.-steves- wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:12 pmIt is standard PLA in the box. As you have an Ender 3, it is not enclosed and you may have issues printing with ABS. Trevor on here loves the stuff but that isn't the case for most of us, it is a bit of a black art to print with ABS, especially for first prints. I would go with the PLA to start and see how you get on and then decide. Just my point of viewGAP wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:48 am The Ender has come!!!
I have finally taken delivery of an Ender 3 V2, I had to wait till stocks arrived to fill my pre order.
I am slowly assembling it and should be up and running next week, if life would just stop getting in the road.
My first prints will probably some LGB type bogies, I found some stl files on Thingaverse, to replace the home made ones I have on 6 wagons at present.
I am thinking of using ABS filament.
Does anybody know what type of filament comes in the box with the printer?
Trevor
Re: Buying a 3D printer
1mm seems a very large gap to me - the height should be no more than the thickness of a sheet of paper.
I'm sure you've probably already tried this but there are a few videos on YouTube about bed levelling specific to the Ender 3 - eg - https://youtu.be/_EfWVUJjBdA
This chap seems to know what he's talking about.
It does sound as if you're having more of a problem than should normally be the case. Once the bed has been levelled, it does get easier - I promise...
If you're still running into problems I could pop round to see my mate who has an Ender 3 to see if he has any specific advice.
Rik
I'm sure you've probably already tried this but there are a few videos on YouTube about bed levelling specific to the Ender 3 - eg - https://youtu.be/_EfWVUJjBdA
This chap seems to know what he's talking about.
It does sound as if you're having more of a problem than should normally be the case. Once the bed has been levelled, it does get easier - I promise...
If you're still running into problems I could pop round to see my mate who has an Ender 3 to see if he has any specific advice.
Rik
Re: Buying a 3D printer
I think there is your problem. My m/c (Qidi) came with a thin piece of plastic on which is printed "Levelling paper". I've just checked with micrometer and it is 0.25mm thick, so your 1mm sounds very much too high. For reference a piece of Tesco best printer paper came in at 0.11mm. The major cause of print problems I've found, is getting that gap right. Too big and you get spaghetti, too small and it smears and even drags the nozzle on the bed.
Thats sounds fine for PLA in my experience.
As I've said above, but you need to know what it is. Find a piece of 0.25mm plasticard and use that.
I think there was some discussion of this a couple of weeks back. If memory serves, you have 4 levelling screws on the Ender? I only have 3, which brings its own problems but they are different to a 4 screw version, so I can't really suggest the best way to tackle it.GAP wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:29 am If I adjust one side of the plate till it is "just right" when I move over to the other side the nozzle hits the plate till I adjust the opposite side, the same for the front to back adjustment.
I just go round and round and adjust each one in turn over and over as any change of one screw throws out all the others.
Philip
- GAP
- Trainee Driver
- Posts: 690
- Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:34 pm
- Location: Bundaberg QLD Australia
- Contact:
Re: Buying a 3D printer
There are 2 preheat settings on the Ender3 V2 PLA and ABS which is why I am looking at ABSTrevor Thompson wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:28 amI don't know anything about types of printer other than the one I have. But printing with ABS requires specific conditions: bed plate heated to 100 degrees C, extruder at 230 degrees, and a FULLY enclosed build area. I suggest that the printer you have is not suitable for printing ABS.-steves- wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:12 pmIt is standard PLA in the box. As you have an Ender 3, it is not enclosed and you may have issues printing with ABS. Trevor on here loves the stuff but that isn't the case for most of us, it is a bit of a black art to print with ABS, especially for first prints. I would go with the PLA to start and see how you get on and then decide. Just my point of viewGAP wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:48 am The Ender has come!!!
I have finally taken delivery of an Ender 3 V2, I had to wait till stocks arrived to fill my pre order.
I am slowly assembling it and should be up and running next week, if life would just stop getting in the road.
My first prints will probably some LGB type bogies, I found some stl files on Thingaverse, to replace the home made ones I have on 6 wagons at present.
I am thinking of using ABS filament.
Does anybody know what type of filament comes in the box with the printer?
Trevor
Graeme
From the home of the Ringbalin Light Railway
https://ringbalin-light-railway.blogspo ... -page.html
From the home of the Ringbalin Light Railway
https://ringbalin-light-railway.blogspo ... -page.html
- -steves-
- Administrator
- Posts: 2445
- Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:50 pm
- Location: Cambridge & Peterborough
Re: Buying a 3D printer
Yes it has the preheat settings, as does my Ender 5 and my Ender 6 (the 6 is a mainly enclosed printer) but I still wouldn't go with ABS as they are not FULLY enclosed. Just stick with PLA or PLA+ for now (I always use PLA+) and if you want more, then try PETG and see how you get on with that.
As mentioned, the first layer height is absolutely critical for everything.
The buck stops here .......
Ditton Meadow Light Railway (DMLR)
Member of Peterborough and District Association
http://peterborough.16mm.org.uk/
Ditton Meadow Light Railway (DMLR)
Member of Peterborough and District Association
http://peterborough.16mm.org.uk/
- -steves-
- Administrator
- Posts: 2445
- Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:50 pm
- Location: Cambridge & Peterborough
Re: Buying a 3D printer
Also it can be worth winding the levelling screws down tighter before you do the levelling as the board can move otherwise.
Never had an Ender 3 myself, but I am assuming you have to set the Z offset like the Ender 5 and then save the settings?
Never had an Ender 3 myself, but I am assuming you have to set the Z offset like the Ender 5 and then save the settings?
The buck stops here .......
Ditton Meadow Light Railway (DMLR)
Member of Peterborough and District Association
http://peterborough.16mm.org.uk/
Ditton Meadow Light Railway (DMLR)
Member of Peterborough and District Association
http://peterborough.16mm.org.uk/
- GAP
- Trainee Driver
- Posts: 690
- Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:34 pm
- Location: Bundaberg QLD Australia
- Contact:
Re: Buying a 3D printer
I did read somewhere about tightening the screw, think it was on here, I will attempt to start over again using some of the suggestions.
A couple of screw knobs seem to have no resistance to turning unlike other that have some tension.
The bed may need cleaning as it has just had the protective sheet removed and that may have left some residue.
There is a Z axis offset setting but I have not touched it (set to 0) as I do not know what it does.
Graeme
From the home of the Ringbalin Light Railway
https://ringbalin-light-railway.blogspo ... -page.html
From the home of the Ringbalin Light Railway
https://ringbalin-light-railway.blogspo ... -page.html
- GAP
- Trainee Driver
- Posts: 690
- Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:34 pm
- Location: Bundaberg QLD Australia
- Contact:
Re: Buying a 3D printer
Have not heard of PLA+ so another bit of research required.-steves- wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:24 pmYes it has the preheat settings, as does my Ender 5 and my Ender 6 (the 6 is a mainly enclosed printer) but I still wouldn't go with ABS as they are not FULLY enclosed. Just stick with PLA or PLA+ for now (I always use PLA+) and if you want more, then try PETG and see how you get on with that.
As mentioned, the first layer height is absolutely critical for everything.
Talk about the dark side being challenging.
Graeme
From the home of the Ringbalin Light Railway
https://ringbalin-light-railway.blogspo ... -page.html
From the home of the Ringbalin Light Railway
https://ringbalin-light-railway.blogspo ... -page.html
- GAP
- Trainee Driver
- Posts: 690
- Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:34 pm
- Location: Bundaberg QLD Australia
- Contact:
Re: Buying a 3D printer
There be 3D prints here!!!
After looking at some more youtube videos I have successfully 'leveled' the bed and adjusted the Z axis offset (0.1 for one and 0.13 for the other) for the printer and have successfully printed the 2 test prints that came with the printer on an SD card.
Next step along the path to the dark side is to;
After looking at some more youtube videos I have successfully 'leveled' the bed and adjusted the Z axis offset (0.1 for one and 0.13 for the other) for the printer and have successfully printed the 2 test prints that came with the printer on an SD card.
Next step along the path to the dark side is to;
- 'slice' the .stl files that I have in Tinkercad using the Creality Slicer that came with the printer
- then transfer them to an SD card
- then to start printing a bogie for a wagon
Graeme
From the home of the Ringbalin Light Railway
https://ringbalin-light-railway.blogspo ... -page.html
From the home of the Ringbalin Light Railway
https://ringbalin-light-railway.blogspo ... -page.html
Re: Buying a 3D printer
It's a simple one line comment, so must be easy
Re: Buying a 3D printer
You do realise that half of the 'not yet got a 3d printer' forum members are following your progress before making the leap themselves? No pressureGAP wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:03 am There be 3D prints here!!!
After looking at some more youtube videos I have successfully 'leveled' the bed and adjusted the Z axis offset (0.1 for one and 0.13 for the other) for the printer and have successfully printed the 2 test prints that came with the printer on an SD card.
Next step along the path to the dark side is to;
- 'slice' the .stl files that I have in Tinkercad using the Creality Slicer that came with the printer
- then transfer them to an SD card
How hard can this be?????
- then to start printing a bogie for a wagon
Phil
Sporadic Garden Railer who's inconsistencies know no bounds
My Line - https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... 41&t=11077
Sporadic Garden Railer who's inconsistencies know no bounds
My Line - https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... 41&t=11077
- Peter Butler
- Driver
- Posts: 5254
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:33 pm
- Location: West Wales
Re: Buying a 3D printer
On the other hand it has just proved to me what a complete nightmare it all is and that I have been correct in my decision all along not to buy one!
The best things in life are free.... so why am I doing this?
Re: Buying a 3D printer
You won't be surprised that I totally disagree, PeterPeter Butler wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:45 pm On the other hand it has just proved to me what a complete nightmare it all is and that I have been correct in my decision all along not to buy one!
Like anything else, it takes a bit of practice to get to grips with something new and of course sometimes it never does turn out satisfactorily. Something that you find very easy and I always have trouble with, is paint mixing to get the right colour. I've been trying to crack that particular technique for about 60 odd years with little or no success but I keep trying!
Philip
- GAP
- Trainee Driver
- Posts: 690
- Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:34 pm
- Location: Bundaberg QLD Australia
- Contact:
Re: Buying a 3D printer
I have to agree after the bad day on Tuesday, I had some 1:1 train therapy on Wednesday and yesterday (Thursday) I started right from the beginning again.philipy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:30 pmYou won't be surprised that I totally disagree, PeterPeter Butler wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:45 pm On the other hand it has just proved to me what a complete nightmare it all is and that I have been correct in my decision all along not to buy one!
Like anything else, it takes a bit of practice to get to grips with something new and of course sometimes it never does turn out satisfactorily. Something that you find very easy and I always have trouble with, is paint mixing to get the right colour. I've been trying to crack that particular technique for about 60 odd years with little or no success but I keep trying!
I looked at some other videos before starting to get other opinions and found one that described how to do the Z stop adjustment a different way. After that the bed leveling went smoothly and the test prints were a success.
I guess I was living up to Einstein's description of insanity “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”
My next step is mastering the slicer and starting a print for a bogie.
Graeme
From the home of the Ringbalin Light Railway
https://ringbalin-light-railway.blogspo ... -page.html
From the home of the Ringbalin Light Railway
https://ringbalin-light-railway.blogspo ... -page.html
- GAP
- Trainee Driver
- Posts: 690
- Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:34 pm
- Location: Bundaberg QLD Australia
- Contact:
Re: Buying a 3D printer
Regarding the springs this is one of the videos I watched and the person recommended replacing the springs with a different type that do not buckle under compression to improve efficiency.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JSa_r8xgX8
This is the other and again compressing the springs was recommended.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypb1OUII9Nw
I used the method in the top video to set the z axis switch and a combination of both to level the bed.
I adjusted the z offset after watching the print quality and on the 2 items I printed (the dog and cat that came presliced on the printers SD card) and adjust accordingly, 0.1 and 0.13 respectively, to get a smooth print.
My other big mistake was I started printing immediately instead of letting the bed and nozzle temperatures stabilise, applying a bit of patience instead jumping in boots and all and things just started to work.
I did notice that when the print started a line was laid down on the extreme edge of the bed before the nozzle moved to the centre, I am guessing that this is to get the filament ready to print.
Update;
When I went to Jaycar to buy some filament they have a Creality Dual Filament 3D Printer CR-X and it has the recommended springs fitted, guessing Creality have upgrade to these type of springs.
Last edited by GAP on Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Graeme
From the home of the Ringbalin Light Railway
https://ringbalin-light-railway.blogspo ... -page.html
From the home of the Ringbalin Light Railway
https://ringbalin-light-railway.blogspo ... -page.html
Re: Buying a 3D printer
I'm surprised your m/c programming allows the print to start before the temps stabilise - I'm no expert but I wonder if your G Code is a bit corrupted?GAP wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:15 pm
My other big mistake was I started printing immediately instead of letting the bed and nozzle temperatures stabilise, applying a bit of patience instead jumping in boots and all and things just started to work.
I did notice that when the print started a line was laid down on the extreme edge of the bed before the nozzle moved to the centre, I am guessing that this is to get the filament ready to print.
With my m/c I press start and it does all sorts of moving to check/set the bed height and x & y zero's, etc, before the head moves to the front left corner for a couple of minutes and sits there with the filament slowly oozing as the nozzle temp increases, and at the same ltime the display shows the bed temp also increasing. Only when both are within operating limits does the head move back to the bed and then it first lays down a long line the full length and half a return length of the front edge of the bed before moving over to start actually printing.
Philip
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests