Adventures with a Flashforge

[SimonWood]

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To give a balanced picture of the printer... I should probably post pics of the problems, not just the successes!

I've mentioned the 'curling' issue - that is, the edge(s) of the raft lift up, and so the print is not on a flat base...the print is uneven, with some parts getting compressed in the Z axis - in this case the sleeper printing too high, the rail not high enough, the sleeper won't sit flat and more importantly flanges will hit it:

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Then, I'm not quite sure what to call this, although it seems to be quite common - sometimes it looks like it would be easy enough to hide with filler, sometimes not so much:

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My guess is this is probably due to my printing ABS when the ambient temperature is too low and the side door of the printer is off to allow me to feed it from a 1kg spool...

[philipy]

To give a balanced picture of the printer... I should probably post pics of the problems, not just the successes!

Ahh...spaghetti..been there, done that, got Tee shirts galore!

Probably the bed isn't hot enough and/or the initial layers are too cool and/or to fast. Final issue I've found is that sometimes a blob of filament has stuck to the nozzle and the filament then sticks to it and curls round as it extrudes, then it doesn't stick to the bed and just extrudes the spaghetti,

Then, I'm not quite sure what to call this, although it seems to be quite common - sometimes it looks like it would be easy enough to hide with filler, sometimes not so much:

My guess is this is probably due to my printing ABS when the ambient temperature is too low and the side door of the printer is off to allow me to feed it from a 1kg spool...

I think that is a function of printing temperature and probably drafts, plus possibly print speed. Basically one layer of filament has cooled down before it could fuse properly to the layer underneath, and then subsequent layers have stuck to each other and warp as they cool. If the print speed is slightly higher it might have time to fuse before it cools.

[-steves-]

I have a simple answer to warping and it work's. Pritt Stick (or Tesco equivalent which also works just as well but is loads cheaper). The first time you put it on it doesn't always work that well after it's been cleaned, but subsequent applications are hard to get off the magnetic base, only thing is you need to wash it and scrub it once in a while or it ends up too bumpy with all the glue. I use this ALL the time and I get no warping issues after the first application each time.

[Trevor Thompson]

Ah Simon

I have had these problems as well. They are more common (probably) with ABS than PLA.

Firstly when the raft fails to bond to the bed. Try cleaning with Acetone and if that isn't enough acetone with ABS in it. As I said before be careful it will really stick if you overdo the ABS. So much that you can damage the flexible bed plate.

The splits in the components printed on edge. Firstly the component may be too thin - in as much as it will improve the situation if the component is thicker. As Philip said it is a cooling issue. You could manually reduce the print speed a bit in the "more options menu". You can adjust the temperature of the extruder a bit - to 235 which is as high as it will go perhaps.

As for calibration. I don't think we have any calibration controls apart from setting the height of the extruder in its zero position. I have not calibrated mine - and I have done a huge amount of printing on it. If you find out how to do it (and if it is necessary) let me know!

[Trevor Thompson]

Just realised Philip said raise the print speed and I said lower the print speed. Obviously try both as an experiment but I think lower will give it longer to fuse to the lower layer.

Trevor

[philipy]

I think lower will give it longer to fuse to the lower layer.

True. I was thinking that increasing the speed would get the head back again before it had cooled too much! As you say, try both.

[SimonWood]

So far I've got around the curling problem cleaning with nothing more than IPA but I think the ambient temperature has been warmer.

Meanwhile...

In the meantime, on the Lego wagon I used tabs. There I noticed that for a tab drawn at 64mm I needed a slot drawn at 64.8mm for it to fit into. Tab and slot were both drawn and printed in the same plane...

On Rik's Southwold short van the side (digital height 80mm) has printed out at a real-world height of ~79.5mm. The gap it fits into in the van end has printed out a height of ~78.5mm. Again, nothing a file can't fix...

[Trevor Thompson]

I suppose I have avoided the issues of making one part fit into another by avoiding the issue. Looking at what I have made I make most things as flat plates when I can. So each side and end separately then glue them onto a base. So the issue of shrinkage and so on is just not apparent.

It explains why I have only crossed it with holes for axles and wheel centres, which I just machine anyway.

Trevor

[philipy]

It explains why I have only crossed it with holes for axles and wheel centres, which I just machine anyway.

Thinking about it, thats about the only time it's bothered me, as well. I normally fudge it, if necessary, with drills, files, etc. I don't have a lathe and haven't used one since about 1965/6 at school, when my one and only effort was a brass cannon barrel about 3" long!

[SimonWood]

It's good to know that it's not just me. As I say it's quickly resolved with a file (or a lathe!) but if it were the case of it being 5 minutes tinkering with the settings if only I knew how, I'd learn how before I made any more prints! As it seems to be more of a case of nothing is perfect, but it improves as you get to know your printer, I'll just keep getting to know my printer!

[philipy]

This won't help in the slightest but one of the joys of the resin printer was printing axleboxes and the blind hole for the bearings came out exactly the right size as drawn with no messing about!

[SimonWood]

When one's exploring the limits of what a machine can do, inevitably it involves pushing it to the point where it doesn't quite do exactly what you're asking in exactly the way you want it to... that's the point, though it can be mildly frustrating.

But we're living in an age when one can download and print a cow in the comfort of one's own home. Sometimes you just have to pinch yourself.

[Trevor Thompson]

This won't help in the slightest but one of the joys of the resin printer was printing axleboxes and the blind hole for the bearings came out exactly the right size as drawn with no messing about!

Ah! only a few days to go and I will be able to share that joy!

Trevor

[pandsrowe]

Simon, apart from your desire to print with ABS was there any other reasons that you decided on an Adventurer 3?
I'm in the process of selecting a suitable printer for myself and I keep getting drawn towards it, not the cheapest and the print area is a bit limiting but I keep thinking it's nicely engineered and I do like the fact that it's enclosed. So many other makes look like a a prototype lash up from a research lab and I presume being enclosed reduces the noise level somewhat. Also I'm wondering if the special filament reel size is much of a hindrance, I see you have mentioned putting reels on an adapter and leaving the door open but isn't that defeating the object of an enclosed printer? Is it not practicable to wind filament from a larger spool onto the Flashforge reel, or is it not worth the bother?
One other point that that you may be able to clear up for me, I have heard that unused filament should be kept in some kind of airtight container to prevent deterioration, is this fact or some kind of old wives tale?
Thanks in advance for any useful pointers.

[philipy]

Phil,
I'll jump in here if I may, and no doubt Simon and others will share their thoughts as well.

Pretty much all printers will handle both ABS and PLA and some other materials as well. It's just a matter of setting the correct parameters when slicing.
The noise level is minimal and not a reason to choose between enclosed or open machines ( unless you keep it beside your bed and print overnight!)
I can't comment on the flashforge reels specifically, but no way wouId I try to rewind a filament reel - that stuff has a mind of it's own and always get in a tangle. I have in the past bought small trial reels of various materials/colours and it is always a 'mare.
Yes, filament should be kept in an airtight container to keep moisture away from it, because it is hygroscopic and will absorb moisture from the air which will make it brittle, but having said all that, I don't normally do it!
Actually, I do if I'm changing the reel to a different colour/material, but normally I just leave the current reel on the machine and I've only once lost a small amount of filament, at the end of a reel which been lying around in the open air and hadn't been used for a couple of months. A little tip, I use the round plastic 'tins' from chocolate selections (Roses, Celebrations, Heros, etc) which are the perfect size for 1Kg reels once the small internal plastic reinforcements are removed. They've been on special offer for £3.50 in the supermarkets in the run up to Christmas, so you get a storage box for £3.50 and free choccys! . New filament reels come sealed in vacuum packed wrappers with silica gel sachets inside. Keep the satchet and put them in the 'tins'

[SimonWood]

Simon, apart from your desire to print with ABS was there any other reasons that you decided on an Adventurer 3?

To be honest the primary reason was because I wanted something that would require very little set up or tinkering to begin producing decent prints. (I don't mind tinkering when I vaguely know what I'm doing, but right now everything about 3D printing is new and I want to learn about what's possible, and the various other aspects, including the design side, and limited time means this is a good compromise). This machine seemed to suit my needs, based on talking to Trevor about his experience, also seeing the results he had with it. Also the fact that Trevor has been able to give me some very useful guidance based a year's worth of using this machine!

In short - Trevor will be able to give you a better answer than I can when he comes along!

In terms of the noise - that wasn't a factor for me, but I can report this machine is very quite. No louder than your average inkjet. That said, it did wake me up when I had it in the room below where I'm sleeping, but I have very poor noise insulation!

Yes I've used an adaptor and just used larger filament reels hanging outside the enclosure. It may defeat the object - I'm not sure whether it is the cause of some of my ABS issues - but one potential solution is printing a new door (or modifying the old one) with a holder on the outside and a slit let in to feed the filament through. Or, as you say, you can wind the filament onto the Flashforge reel - I know this is what Trevor did until recently.

As to your question on keeping filament airtight, thank you for the question and thanks Philipy for the answer! Not something I'd really thought about, but something I'm glad to know now.

[pandsrowe]

Thank you both for your very detailed replies and as usual as one question is answered it in turn poses another question.
If the filament is hygroscopic and potentially becomes brittle, what happens after it has been extruded by the printer? Is the printed model still hygroscopic and brittle and dependent upon being painted to negate this problem or am I just worrying unnecessarily?
I have just watched a utube video of a guy in the States explaining the setting up of one of his printers and in the background are racks with dozens of reels of filament, all exposed to the air, so he for one is not worried.

[SimonWood]

Well none of my models are more than 2 weeks old so I'd better leave that to others to answer!

[philipy]

Thank you both for your very detailed replies and as usual as one question is answered it in turn poses another question.
If the filament is hygroscopic and potentially becomes brittle, what happens after it has been extruded by the printer? Is the printed model still hygroscopic and brittle and dependent upon being painted to negate this problem or am I just worrying unnecessarily?
I have just watched a utube video of a guy in the States explaining the setting up of one of his printers and in the background are racks with dozens of reels of filament, all exposed to the air, so he for one is not worried.

Phil,
Thats a good point and one that I personally don't know the technical answer to. However at a practical level, I can vouch for the fact that I've had both PLA and ABS prints out in the garden permanently for a couple of years and although dirty they are still fine and as good as when they were first printed.

The one thing I can say is that once it goes brittle, the filament tends to snap before it gets to the extruder nozzle so you get failed prints simply because the machine isn't being fed. Unless you watch it like a hawk and are quick enough to feed it in manually when it snaps( which is just about possible, but not infallibly so), come back 10 minutes later and you have a failed print. After that happened half a dozen times, I gave up and chucked the rest of the reel.
As for the racks of reels, yes I've seen those as well. Dunno how they get away with it, although it may be because they have several printers going virtually all the time, so each reel isn't there for very long. As I said, I don't bother to protect the one actually on the machine, normally, and that will take maybe a few months to use up, but once I've changed it for whatever reason, it may be several months before it goes back on so the overall working life could be up to a year or so. Protecting it whilst not in use is a sensible precaution IMO and it has to be stored somewhere so a more or less airtight box and silca gel sachet that cost nothing is worth doing.

[ge_rik]

On a different tack, I wouldn't be too put off by open-framed 3d printers. Some of the best quality printers are open framed. It's possible to construct your own enclosure around a printer, but I've not really experienced problems with draughts on either of my printers.

My cheapo (£80) printer is a bit noisy when it's whizzing about printing from one side of a model to the other, but my better quality £250 printer is almost silent. The cooling fan on the power supply makes the most noise - about the same as my laptop computer.

Rik