3 D Printing 16mm models

A place where discussions are about 3D printing.
Trevor Thompson
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 964
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:30 pm
Location: South West Wales

Re: 3 D Printing 16mm models

Post by Trevor Thompson » Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:42 am

Rik mentioned the difficulty of printing roofs.

That prompts me to share a couple of failures. Well I haven't used them so they are failures - but I have kept them because they are actually recoverable.

Note that it seems best to print roofs on end - ie front or back of the roof on the bed plate.

The first is a roof for the Ashbury 4 wheel coach. This was printed in two parts - the join is in the middle of the oil lamp. So just print the front half twice. This was printed at the default speed and temperature. There were numerous cracks in this. So serious that I could actually split it into sections while handling it. I think that the issue is to do with shrinkage as the part cools during printing. The central parts are thicker and perhaps retain the heat better than the thin edges which shrink away from the nozzle. I have glued the sections back together and filled the shrunken bits. I think I could use this one (but I subsequently made two better roofs):
IMG_0829.jpg
IMG_0829.jpg (255.1 KiB) Viewed 4869 times
The second is a roof for 4415. So this roof was printed in one piece and with a slightly elevated temperature and 30% reduced extruder speed:
IMG_0828.jpg
IMG_0828.jpg (329.8 KiB) Viewed 4869 times
This had 2 slight cracks on the thinnest edges - but they only penetrated a few mm - and I couldn't break the roof by bending it around the crack. Still having the problem but only a little. The cracks are now invisible because I fixed them using bits of ABS dissolved in acetone as a filler / glue. It has been sanded. Roofs are one thing it is worth sanding - there is nothing to loose and a lot to gain in improving the appearance of the bit which is so close to your eyes!

The problem I was having was that at various heights the layers were not bonding properly to each other - and cracks were appearing at the edges - where it is thinnest.
So I think it is worth making roofs this way but it probably won't work first time. It might also be easier using PLA. The ABS I am currently using is renowned for being more difficult.

Now back to the bridge.

I have persuaded the ABS to stay down on the bed at the moment. The first 2 sections of the bridge deck are printed sanded and assembled. Oh and there is no detail to loose here and wood has grain flowing along the plane, so why not? The tops of things are always most in the line of sight:
IMG_0827.jpg
IMG_0827.jpg (291.77 KiB) Viewed 4869 times
This took 6 hours to print each part. there is some slight curvature on the top of the deck but not enough to make the parts unusable. The bridge deck is going to take over 30 hours to print. The whole bridge only took 5 hours to design and draw.

More next week

Trevor

User avatar
ge_rik
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6497
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:20 pm
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Re: 3 D Printing 16mm models

Post by ge_rik » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:41 am

Thanks for the feedback, Trevor. I admire your persistence with the roofs. I probably give up too easily.

That footbridge looks ambitious. The drawing alone looks really impressive.

Rik
PS I'm impressed with the quality of your trackwork btw
------------------------
Peckforton Light Railway - Blog Facebook Youtube

Trevor Thompson
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 964
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:30 pm
Location: South West Wales

Re: 3 D Printing 16mm models

Post by Trevor Thompson » Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:46 pm

Rick

Thanks for the comments on the track. Hand built using Cliff Barker's rail chairs and fishplates. Sleepers cut from Larch and teak offcuts. The points are also hand built. Im particularly proud of the curved 3 way point. Totally over the top but I enjoyed making it!

Trevor Thompson
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 964
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:30 pm
Location: South West Wales

Re: 3 D Printing 16mm models

Post by Trevor Thompson » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:37 am

An update on finishing off 4415, and progress on painting the coaches.

I am very conscious of the scepticism of what I am doing in certain quarters - and that is why I am paying so much attention to the final finishes.

Firstly the coaches. The last photo showed the wet paint on the coach side. This one is it after it has dried. As far as I am concerned it is as good as I would have been able to get it however I made it.. So I feel it justifies the effort to line it properly. So the paint dry:
IMG_0830.jpg
IMG_0830.jpg (307.63 KiB) Viewed 4793 times
And now 4415. I have added the lettering and the makers plate. The lettering is hand painted - and I have done better, but it will suffice. The surface finish on some of the panels is not perfect, and I may yet go back and try different print settings. I suspect more solid layers on the outer surfaces may improve the surface finish. Anyway as a project it is finished and it works:
IMG_0833.jpg
IMG_0833.jpg (322.85 KiB) Viewed 4793 times
IMG_0836.jpg
IMG_0836.jpg (313.02 KiB) Viewed 4793 times
Trevor

User avatar
-steves-
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 2412
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:50 pm
Location: Cambridge & Peterborough

Re: 3 D Printing 16mm models

Post by -steves- » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:22 pm

Trevor

That looks absolutely superb as I am aware of the pitfalls of 3D printing.

I have downloaded a few of the usual suspects and printed them off,they went OK. Then I wanted to see if I could make a similar kit to one I already had, but it was a simple structure and that went OK too. Then I sat down and draw up (still in the process of this one) some drawings for an LKM Ns2f, simply because i had one and wanted another but could not get hold of one. Some of the parts in the pictures I am aware either need reprinting or redrawing.

I would also add, NONE of my 3D printed models have been rubbed down, sanded, filled or anything, just the worst of the stringy bits removed, glued and painted. The reason for this is because I am just seeing what results I can get at the moment and these loco's are just "to see what happens". Once I am happy with with what I am doing, I will "finish" one off properly :D

Great job though Trevor, just shows there are more sides to our hobby as I also work with a lathe, a mill and woodworking to produce what I would like. It's good to see others making use of technology as it comes along.

Image

Image

Image

Image









Last edited by -steves- on Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:56 pm, edited 4 times in total.
The buck stops here .......

Ditton Meadow Light Railway (DMLR)
Member of Peterborough and District Association
http://peterborough.16mm.org.uk/

User avatar
ge_rik
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6497
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:20 pm
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Re: 3 D Printing 16mm models

Post by ge_rik » Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:33 pm

Those prints look really crisp, Steve. What machine and what settings are you using?

Rik
PS I like the pirouetting driver in the last video
------------------------
Peckforton Light Railway - Blog Facebook Youtube

User avatar
-steves-
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 2412
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:50 pm
Location: Cambridge & Peterborough

Re: 3 D Printing 16mm models

Post by -steves- » Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:41 pm

ge_rik wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:33 pm Those prints look really crisp, Steve. What machine and what settings are you using?

Rik
Hi Rik

I am using a Creality Ender 5 Pro, bed temp of 50 and nozzle temp of 200. If I use a glass plate to print on I get no end of warping and lots of unusable prints, even using glue on the glass. The magnetic Creality base is just amazing, even without glue it generally doesn't warp, but with glue, I have been unable to get anything to warp.

The photos don't really do the print quality justice, the roof even though it looks bumpy is as smooth as silk and was printed vertically, plus it's only 1mm think!
The buck stops here .......

Ditton Meadow Light Railway (DMLR)
Member of Peterborough and District Association
http://peterborough.16mm.org.uk/

User avatar
-steves-
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 2412
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:50 pm
Location: Cambridge & Peterborough

Re: 3 D Printing 16mm models

Post by -steves- » Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:44 pm

ge_rik wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:33 pm
PS I like the pirouetting driver in the last video
Yup, I thought that would be quite funky to do. Just uses a modified servo to give 180 degree turn (nearly), an RX65 wired into a servo on low off, a quick programming change to link the channels so when the direction switch is changed, so does the driver, lol :lol:

P.S. you should recognise at least one of those diesels from you early download and print days :)
The buck stops here .......

Ditton Meadow Light Railway (DMLR)
Member of Peterborough and District Association
http://peterborough.16mm.org.uk/

User avatar
ge_rik
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6497
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:20 pm
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Re: 3 D Printing 16mm models

Post by ge_rik » Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:16 pm

-steves- wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:41 pm I am using a Creality Ender 5 Pro, bed temp of 50 and nozzle temp of 200. If I use a glass plate to print on I get no end of warping and lots of unusable prints, even using glue on the glass. The magnetic Creality base is just amazing, even without glue it generally doesn't warp, but with glue, I have been unable to get anything to warp.

The photos don't really do the print quality justice, the roof even though it looks bumpy is as smooth as silk and was printed vertically, plus it's only 1mm think!
I was considering the Creality Ender 3 Pro if Santa is feeling generous.

Interesting about the magnetic bed surface. I'm awaiting delivery of one for my cheapo Anet A8 clone from Banggood. I've been using a glass plate with Pritt which is ok for most prints but long thin ones (such as the guttering for the boneworks) have a tendency to curl at one end. I'll be interested to see how the magnetic surface fares. What sort of glue do you use?

Yes, I spotted two of the little diesels I printed out. One sounds as rattly as mine .... 😳

Rik

PS Does the Creality Ender 5 have auto bed levelling as standard?
------------------------
Peckforton Light Railway - Blog Facebook Youtube

Trevor Thompson
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 964
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:30 pm
Location: South West Wales

Re: 3 D Printing 16mm models

Post by Trevor Thompson » Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:39 pm

Brilliant to see that someone else is also experimenting!

The printed locos look brilliant. I like the driver facing the right way as well.

I have the first section of railing printed for the bridge There will be 12 sections of which 8 are identical:
IMG_0838.jpg
IMG_0838.jpg (356.64 KiB) Viewed 4705 times
And I have had second thoughts about the 4415. I have a cunning plan to make it easier to paint the lettering accurately. I am going to try using 6 solid top layers and 4 solid bottom layers to see if it has any effect on the quality of the print. It shouldn't be embossed - but lets try it overnight:
Screen Shot 2020-09-14 at 15.00.51.png
Screen Shot 2020-09-14 at 15.00.51.png (393.52 KiB) Viewed 4705 times
Trevor

User avatar
ge_rik
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6497
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:20 pm
Location: Cheshire
Contact:

Re: 3 D Printing 16mm models

Post by ge_rik » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:09 am

Trevor Thompson wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:39 pm And I have had second thoughts about the 4415. I have a cunning plan to make it easier to paint the lettering accurately. I am going to try using 6 solid top layers and 4 solid bottom layers to see if it has any effect on the quality of the print. It shouldn't be embossed - but lets try it overnight:
Trevor
That does look like a clever wheeze, Trevor. I shall await the outcome with interest.

Rik
------------------------
Peckforton Light Railway - Blog Facebook Youtube

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: 3 D Printing 16mm models

Post by philipy » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:41 am

If you want the lettering as an overlay in a different colour to the body, you could try actually printing it in the correct colour.
Philip

Trevor Thompson
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 964
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:30 pm
Location: South West Wales

Re: 3 D Printing 16mm models

Post by Trevor Thompson » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:02 pm

Ah that would be clever. I haven't tried printing in different colours - and I have white filament!

As a test it has worked, although I am going to fettle some of the rivet detail:
IMG_0842.jpg
IMG_0842.jpg (336.27 KiB) Viewed 4661 times
And of course the bridge is progressing:
IMG_0844.jpg
IMG_0844.jpg (333.68 KiB) Viewed 4661 times
Trevor

metalmuncher
Cleaner
Cleaner
Posts: 95
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:15 pm

Re: 3 D Printing 16mm models

Post by metalmuncher » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:42 pm

That text came out quite nice, you could do a mirrored version of the text that could be used as a stamp? Might be better off in a more flexible material like TPU, but even then I think you would need to do manual touchup. You could even include a slot that fits around the box on the side panel for alignment.

User avatar
-steves-
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 2412
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:50 pm
Location: Cambridge & Peterborough

Re: 3 D Printing 16mm models

Post by -steves- » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:56 am

ge_rik wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:16 pm
I was considering the Creality Ender 3 Pro if Santa is feeling generous.

Interesting about the magnetic bed surface. I'm awaiting delivery of one for my cheapo Anet A8 clone from Banggood. I've been using a glass plate with Pritt which is ok for most prints but long thin ones (such as the guttering for the boneworks) have a tendency to curl at one end. I'll be interested to see how the magnetic surface fares. What sort of glue do you use?

Yes, I spotted two of the little diesels I printed out. One sounds as rattly as mine .... 😳

Rik

PS Does the Creality Ender 5 have auto bed levelling as standard?
The Creality Ender 3 and 5 are both very good printers. Mine is standard, they do not have bed levelling (which is such a shame), I have gone back to the magnetic bed after trying glass and I also use Pritt stick as an adhesive. The Ender 5 has the advantage of a rigid square frame which helps with less "wobble", but the bed itself is not well supported at one end so it can appear a bit flexible, however it does not seem to affect the print quality (you can download bed supports from Thiniverse to help with this, though I have not bothered myself). One of my friends has an Ender 3 and loves it, however he really likes mine and is switching from the 3 to the 5 soon as mine seems to produce better prints than his and he has spent a fair bit on upgrades already.

The 3D printed stuff does give a unique resonance to them as they rattle along, lol :lol:

P.S. The Pritt stick on the magnetic surface I have yet to have anything curl on, in fact, sometimes I struggle to get the prints off :thumbup:
The buck stops here .......

Ditton Meadow Light Railway (DMLR)
Member of Peterborough and District Association
http://peterborough.16mm.org.uk/

Trevor Thompson
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 964
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:30 pm
Location: South West Wales

Re: 3 D Printing 16mm models

Post by Trevor Thompson » Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:53 am

Latest update on the bridge:
IMG_0858.jpg
IMG_0858.jpg (364.06 KiB) Viewed 4790 times
Trevor

Trevor Thompson
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 964
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:30 pm
Location: South West Wales

Re: 3 D Printing 16mm models

Post by Trevor Thompson » Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:32 am

It is beginning to look like a bridge! Progress to date:
IMG_0864.jpg
IMG_0864.jpg (285.97 KiB) Viewed 4740 times
IMG_0860.jpg
IMG_0860.jpg (288.58 KiB) Viewed 4740 times
Trevor

Trevor Thompson
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 964
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:30 pm
Location: South West Wales

Re: 3 D Printing 16mm models

Post by Trevor Thompson » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:10 pm

So the bridge is now finished. It printed out successfully without any significant issues. Only a few elements had to be redrawn.

I have purchased the plastic weld glue, and used it successfully, but I have found a mixture of acetone and waste plastic very successful when surfaces are not perfect fits. I think it results in a stronger joint. I fill a bottle with acetone and push offcuts of ABS into it, stopper tightly and shake. After a few hours it forms a paste which can be added to one part of a joint with a pin. I wouldn't use it on rolling stock where stray glue might damage detail, but on something like this bridge it has worked well.

A word about settings for printing. I have increased the extruder temperature 5 degrees above default, used 6 top layers, 4 bottom and side layers, and 20% infil using a honeycomb matrix. I also dispensed with the raft, and added a brim around the components. The resultant bridge is strong- I can pick it up in the middle and all of the cantilevered staircases remain firmly attached.

In total the whole bridge used 1.3 kg of filament.

So firstly two views of the bridge in place:
IMG_0884.jpg
IMG_0884.jpg (351.01 KiB) Viewed 4611 times
IMG_0881.jpg
IMG_0881.jpg (333.84 KiB) Viewed 4611 times
and views of of the "supports" I have invented for each of the platforms rising up the retaining wall (which are not there in the prototype): These supports are not structural - in the model - but I think that something along these lines would have been necessary in full size.
IMG_0885.jpg
IMG_0885.jpg (276.18 KiB) Viewed 4611 times
IMG_0886.jpg
IMG_0886.jpg (275.05 KiB) Viewed 4611 times
Just needs some paint. It will be fun painting that lot with an airbrush!

Trevor

User avatar
pandsrowe
Trainee Fireman
Trainee Fireman
Posts: 246
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:15 pm
Location: West Norfolk, UK

Re: 3 D Printing 16mm models

Post by pandsrowe » Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:32 am

What a superb piece of construction, I must say that really looks the part. I am somewhat surprised that you are going to paint it as I think it looks pretty good as it stands, although that may be a trick of the camera and in real life it may be quite different.
Phil

Trevor Thompson
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 964
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:30 pm
Location: South West Wales

Re: 3 D Printing 16mm models

Post by Trevor Thompson » Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:07 pm

No - it does look as good as it appears in the photos.

It is just that the real one seems to have been either oak or larch - anyway it seems to have been bare wood which weathers gray. It must have been a very durable wood because it was built in the 1870's and lasted until 1933. I want to paint it in various wood colours with the grey dominant on the upper surfaces.

Thanks for the kind comment!

Trevor

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests