5" gauge 0-6-0 Sweet Pea

Discussion of Live Steam locomotives should be located here
User avatar
Andrew
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3247
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:33 pm
Location: Bristol, UK
Contact:

Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 Sweet Pea

Post by Andrew » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:26 pm

Looking good Tom!

As you're aware, I'm not much of an engineer, but that mesh looks like a very neat solution to me.

I guess you're not going to get much opportunity to run her for a while?

Cheers,

Andrew.

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 Sweet Pea

Post by tom_tom_go » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:41 pm

Thanks Andrew.

I am no engineer either but the only way to learn is to have a go. Silver soldering seemed like a dark art before I installed all the pipework for my new injector and now I am working on a club members loco to install his new injector because I have the confidence to do it (it is also my way of saying thank you to him for introducing me to 5" gauge and the club, this is the first loco I got to operate):

IMG_20200319_201203-01.jpeg
IMG_20200319_201203-01.jpeg (425.24 KiB) Viewed 6349 times

The loco is a LMS Stanier Mogul 2-6-0 and is very easy to operate.

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 Sweet Pea

Post by tom_tom_go » Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:54 pm

Andrew wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:26 pm I guess you're not going to get much opportunity to run her for a while?
Running for members of the public will not be allowed until further notice, however, club members are allowed to use the track for testing.

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 Sweet Pea

Post by tom_tom_go » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:33 pm

So after yesterday's announcement in the UK I cannot run the loco at the club track even for testing.

Still, plenty more to do!

The whistle and blower valves have had their damaged paint removed (I prefer unpainted anyway), stripped, cleaned then polished up:

IMG_20200319_142436-01.jpeg
IMG_20200319_142436-01.jpeg (439.25 KiB) Viewed 6285 times

The valves were then installed in the turret using Loctite and new annealed copper washers:

IMG_20200324_182444-01.jpeg
IMG_20200324_182444-01.jpeg (396.92 KiB) Viewed 6285 times

I am starting to think about the cab so I am going to make a prototype from Plastikard:

IMG_20200324_182500-01.jpeg
IMG_20200324_182500-01.jpeg (288.29 KiB) Viewed 6285 times

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 Sweet Pea

Post by tom_tom_go » Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:17 pm

It was warm enough today for me to get the loco outside to test my steam injector install:



I love the noise it makes as it fills the boiler.

There was more footage, however, I had to delete most of it as my finger was over the camera lense!

User avatar
Andrew
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3247
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:33 pm
Location: Bristol, UK
Contact:

Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 Sweet Pea

Post by Andrew » Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:01 pm

Great stuff!

The technical stuff's beyond me, but it looks fantastic, loving how the sun catches the steam and reflects on the brasswork...

Cheers,

Andrew.

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 Sweet Pea

Post by tom_tom_go » Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:57 pm

The sun glare was purely accidental, however, when I went back to watch the videos I thought they were quite atmospheric.

I think I will produce a narrated video of how the locomotive works as it would take me hours to annotate various pictures of all the working parts.

Is that cheating, what do you think?

User avatar
dewintondave
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 697
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:52 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 Sweet Pea

Post by dewintondave » Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:01 am

Voice is best Tom. I'd love to hear your voice :D
Best wishes,
Dave

User avatar
Andrew
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3247
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:33 pm
Location: Bristol, UK
Contact:

Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 Sweet Pea

Post by Andrew » Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:42 am

I'd certainly find it instructive - for someone who's spent his entire life fascinated by steam locomotives, I really know very little about how they work!

If you can find the time to do it then I'll definitely be watching...

Thanks,

Andrew

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 Sweet Pea

Post by tom_tom_go » Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:23 pm

I have not forgotten about the narrated video idea, however, I am still having to work during lockdown so I need to find time to script and produce it.

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 Sweet Pea

Post by tom_tom_go » Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:19 pm

I while back I fitted stainless steel mesh inside the smokebox to stop any hot ashes blowing out the chimney which could set fire to dry grass or hit members of the public while running on the club track.

It was only until I did my last steam test with the newly fitted injector that I realised I could no longer access the exhaust nozzle to squirt oil down into the cylinders and push the engine backwards after a run (cylinders are made of cast iron, if left with condensate inside them the pistons are likely to rust solid - very bad).

If you look at photos of Kerr Stuart Wren class locos some of them have a single bolt located in centre of the steam chest covers. Not sure what function these perform on the Wrens but if I could fit bolts to the steam chest covers on my loco it would give me a way of getting oil into the cylinders directly.

I decided on 4BA brass hex bolts as the steel steam chest cover nuts are 4BA so size wise the hex bolts look alright to me (the brass 4BA nut in the picture shows the rough position of where I wanted the hex bolt to be located on each cylinder):

IMG_20200413_184733-01.jpeg
IMG_20200413_184733-01.jpeg (183.18 KiB) Viewed 6781 times

I have never tapped a hole before and given the importance of not making a hash of this I thought I should practice on some scrap steel. I had a raid through my drill bits box and found a 4BA tap and 3mm drill bit (you can Google what size drill bits you need to use for BA thread tapping):

IMG_20200414_101923-01.jpeg
IMG_20200414_101923-01.jpeg (238.99 KiB) Viewed 6781 times

I use to live next door to a retired engineer (sadly he passed away) and he would often give me bits and pieces that at the time I had no idea what to do with but I am grateful now that he did as the brass hex bolts were also from a collection of nuts and bolts he passed on.

I bought this pillar drill years ago and it has not had much use railway wise although it has come in handy for DIY projects:

https://gardenrails.org/viewtopic.php?f ... 1&start=15

However, it would be ideal to drill and tap the holes I needed!

Here is my practice piece:

IMG_20200414_122649-01.jpeg
IMG_20200414_122649-01.jpeg (128.02 KiB) Viewed 6781 times
IMG_20200414_122907-01.jpeg
IMG_20200414_122907-01.jpeg (95.04 KiB) Viewed 6781 times

The pillar drill was second hand and I would not use it for anything that required bang on accuracy, however, it has not done a bad job. When I tapped the hole I did this by fitting the tap in the pillar drill and then rotating the chuck by hand slowly using some oil.

Filled with confidence now that I had popped my tapping cherry it was on to the steam chest covers!

User avatar
Andrew
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3247
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:33 pm
Location: Bristol, UK
Contact:

Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 Sweet Pea

Post by Andrew » Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:39 pm

tom_tom_go wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:19 pm

I use to live next door to a retired engineer (sadly he passed away) and he would often give me bits and pieces that at the time I had no idea what to do with but I am grateful now that he did as the brass hex bolts were also from a collection of nuts and bolts he passed on.

My late friend Colin was just the same, except that he wasn't a retired engineer, he was an ex-salesman, and he could get anyone to take anything off his hands! Over the course of thirty years he handed me boxes of this and jam jars of that, often with a glint in his eye and the words "this stuff's like gold dust" on his lips. It often took me years, if not decades, to work out quite why the bits and bobs in question were so valuable, and I've got quite a lot of stuff that's still waiting to come into its own, but he was almost invariably right, eventually. And, every time I find a use for some of it, Colin's phrase about gold dust comes to mind all over again...

Looking forward to the video in due course Tom. I'm working from home too, but my employer very generously gave us the rest of this week off in addition to the Monday and |Tuesday that we normally get. I've done lots of DIY for two days, hoping to get down to some train fun tomorrow.

Cheers,

Andrew.

User avatar
Jimmyb
Fireman
Fireman
Posts: 492
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:43 pm
Location: Weston-super-Mare

Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 Sweet Pea

Post by Jimmyb » Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:02 pm

Tom, taps come as a set of three (or did when I was an apprentice) taper, second and plug, the taper for starting the thread, for through holes next use the second, and if a blind hole follow up with the plug. Threading steel need lubrication, any is better than nothing, and a final hint is one - one and half turns, then turn in reverse for half a turn (this breaks the cut swarf from the thread). This should give you a smooth finish to your thread, good luck.

User avatar
dewintondave
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 697
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:52 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 Sweet Pea

Post by dewintondave » Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:16 am

Good on you Tom, I haven't tapped cast iron
Best wishes,
Dave

Garethh
Trainee Fireman
Trainee Fireman
Posts: 219
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:39 am
Location: Surrey

Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 Sweet Pea

Post by Garethh » Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:49 am

I’m intrigued by this thread, started building a sweet pea years ago when I was a member of a model engineering club, only got as far as the frames but this is giving me ideas...

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 Sweet Pea

Post by tom_tom_go » Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:58 am

Garethh wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:49 am I’m intrigued by this thread, started building a sweet pea years ago when I was a member of a model engineering club, only got as far as the frames but this is giving me ideas...
Check out this guy on YouTube, he is building one at the moment using bits he has in his workshop:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCe6dCz ... nzH-LpRMZA

Garethh
Trainee Fireman
Trainee Fireman
Posts: 219
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:39 am
Location: Surrey

Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 Sweet Pea

Post by Garethh » Sat May 02, 2020 10:33 am

That’s an interesting watch, need to figure out if I can make enough space in my shed before I get any more ideas unfortunately!

User avatar
tom_tom_go
Driver
Driver
Posts: 4824
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:08 am
Location: Kent, UK
Contact:

Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 Sweet Pea

Post by tom_tom_go » Mon May 11, 2020 9:12 pm

Here are the valve chest covers tapped with 4BA holes and fitted with brass washers and hex bolts (tapping a hole in cast iron is much easier, no swarf is produced just a powder like iron filings):

IMG_20200416_194713-02.jpeg
IMG_20200416_194713-02.jpeg (392.88 KiB) Viewed 6510 times
IMG_20200416_194708-02.jpeg
IMG_20200416_194708-02.jpeg (353.04 KiB) Viewed 6510 times

I liked the look of the brass washers to mimic the look of flanged bolts, however, they leaked slightly when I tested the loco on air with oil poured around the bolts to spot bubbles. I also tried annealed copper washers but I still had leaks.

When I looked at the threads on the hex bolts I saw that they were not fully threaded up to base of the hex. Fortunately, thanks to my late neighbour I found a 4BA die he had given me and was able to thread the bolts fully so I could tighten them down against the surface of the cylinder cover (I couldn't do this before which is why I had to use washers). Another air test was performed, however, one of the bolts still leaked slightly and I had to over tighten the hex bolts which concerned me as I did not want to snap a bolt inside either cover!

My engineering friend suggested that to achieve a good seal between the bolt and the surface of the cover I would need to 'spot face' them as the cast iron finish of the covers is pitted.

As I don't have a milling machine where you could use a mill cutter bit to face the holes I needed a bit that I could fit to the my pillar drill that would not wander all over the place (this is what I have learned is called 'chatter') when I applied pressure. I found a second hand 4BA counterbore bit with a stub online so that it would could fit inside the threaded hole and centralise the bit:

IMG_20200428_120331-01.jpeg
IMG_20200428_120331-01.jpeg (418.71 KiB) Viewed 6510 times

Unfortunately, when it arrived it was not 4BA sized at all so it did not fit the threaded hole. The seller measured the others he had in stock and agreed they were incorrectly sized so I got a refund but I was back to square one with what to do.

Despite not having a milling machine I decided that I had no choice now but to order a set of HSS end mill cutters and give them a go.

Before trying any of the mill bits on my covers I had a go on some scrap steel, however, the chatter was really bad and the bit regularly wandered off target as can be seen in the below picture (last attempt was not too bad though):

IMG_20200508_125327-01.jpeg
IMG_20200508_125327-01.jpeg (441.17 KiB) Viewed 6510 times

Now steel is harder than cast iron so it was a big ask of my little pillar drill to be able to do this accurately so I moved on to the covers. However, this time I lined up the tapped hole in the cover using a 3mm drill bit and then removed this and fitted the mill bit so it was lined up centrally. I also turned the chuck by hand so I could control the mill bit when it wandered off target.

Eventually, I ended up with a spotted hole!

IMG_20200510_150358-01.jpeg
IMG_20200510_150358-01.jpeg (439.41 KiB) Viewed 6510 times

Not as neat as I would of liked, however, you cannot see the surface finish once the hex bolts are fitted:

IMG_20200511_204831-01.jpeg
IMG_20200511_204831-01.jpeg (396.33 KiB) Viewed 6510 times
IMG_20200511_204854-01.jpeg
IMG_20200511_204854-01.jpeg (372.06 KiB) Viewed 6510 times

I have tested on air with the bolts nipped up and no leaks so far although a steam test will need to be performed to confirm all is well.

Finally, here is the reason why I am going to all this effort (so I can oil the cylinders after a run):

IMG_20200511_205014-01.jpeg
IMG_20200511_205014-01.jpeg (386.05 KiB) Viewed 6510 times

User avatar
dewintondave
Trainee Driver
Trainee Driver
Posts: 697
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:52 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 Sweet Pea

Post by dewintondave » Tue May 12, 2020 12:19 am

Good job Tom! Endmills in a bench drill tend to be a disaster
Best wishes,
Dave

User avatar
philipy
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5033
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:00 pm
Location: South Northants

Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 Sweet Pea

Post by philipy » Tue May 12, 2020 6:35 am

Fascinating set of events nicely documented. Thanks Tom, well done.
Philip

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests