5" gauge 0-6-0 Sweet Pea

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Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 'Sweet Pea'

Post by BorisSpencer » Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:11 am

philipy wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:56 am As Peter said, I watch but have nothing to contribute, but it's interesting to see.
I'm sure the same thing applies to others as well.
+1, I love reading about these things, but acknowledge it's way beyond my skill levels and I couldn't contribute anything worthwhile.

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Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 'Sweet Pea'

Post by tom_tom_go » Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:13 pm

I am still catching up with posting of past work on the loco to get you all updated.

The hand pump started leaking on the last running day at the club in 2019. When I took the pump apart I found this odd looking o-ring used on the ram (possibly PTFE round section?):

IMG_20191028_214151-01.jpeg
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When I bought the correct size silicone o-ring and fitted it you can see in this picture that it protrudes slightly out of the groove on the ram:

IMG_20191204_184543-01.jpeg
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The groove was found to not be the dimensions as per the drawing so it was adjusted. Now, the o-ring fits properly and the hand pump works although in use is a very slow method of getting water into the boiler so I decided it was time to look into fitting an injector!

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Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 'Sweet Pea'

Post by TheChestnutLine » Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:01 am

Tom,

Not sure if you’re aware or not, but I discovered not too long ago PTFE in liquid form that you paint onto threads rather that using the tape which is a faff most of the time; it’s saved me a lot of time and it’s wonderful stuff!

Cheers

James
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Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 'Sweet Pea'

Post by HugoFitz » Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:43 pm

tom_tom_go wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:32 pm Glad you are still with us Hugo as your introduction way back had many interests that you were planning to share?
Slightly off topic but yes I did, I still plan to in the future. It turned out that life and work got in the way of my plans...

Thank you for sharing your projects Tom. Your videos of Roundhouse locos with magnetic chopper couplings have given me great inspiration over the last couple of years. I'm currently waiting patiently for my slomo delivery from Terry.

Keep up the great work Tom :thumbup:

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Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 'Sweet Pea'

Post by tom_tom_go » Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:55 pm

TheChestnutLine wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:01 am Tom,

Not sure if you’re aware or not, but I discovered not too long ago PTFE in liquid form that you paint onto threads rather that using the tape which is a faff most of the time; it’s saved me a lot of time and it’s wonderful stuff!

Cheers

James
I agree with PTFE tape being a faff, it also degrades over time and could end up in places you don't want (boilers, valves, etc).

I have been using Loctite 290 with fittings on this loco which seals adequately but allows parts to be undo without using heat or hammers!

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Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 'Sweet Pea'

Post by tom_tom_go » Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:24 pm

Steam injectors, I knew nothing about them until I started tinkering in 5" gauge. My first couple of runs on a club members loco introduced me to water management using injectors but I still found their operation a mystery.

Wikipedia to the rescue:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injector

The 'Venturi effect' is when the penny dropped and it is used in so many everyday life applications!

My club recommend Pavier Steam as a suppiler of steam injectors so I invested in this bad boy which can supply 1.1/4 pints (24 oz) of water per minute:

Screenshot_20200206_202632_com.android.chrome-01.jpeg
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https://www.paviersteam.com/

Here is a mock up of the injector in position (held in place with wire temporarily):

IMG_20191124_221127-01.jpeg
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Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 'Sweet Pea'

Post by dewintondave » Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:40 am

tom_tom_go wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:13 pm The groove was found to not be the dimensions as per the drawing so it was adjusted. Now, the o-ring fits properly and the hand pump works although in use is a very slow method of getting water into the boiler so I decided it was time to look into fitting an injector!
Tom, I was reminded of your injector project when I just read this whilst doing some research:

"...Feed by twin injectors, which work but quickly get fussy picking up rapidly warming water from the saddle tank, they would be better plumbed to a water tank on the driving truck..."

From your friends at Station Road Steam in regard to a fine "Charles"
https://www.stationroadsteam.com/3-12-i ... code-7530/

Edit. Whoops I see you are well advanced with it ;)
Best wishes,
Dave

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Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 'Sweet Pea'

Post by LNR » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:34 am

You beat me to it Dave, I was going to say it's one thing to have an injector, it's another thing entirely to pipe it so it will pick up reliably, and they generally don't like warm water.
Good luck Tom,
Grant.

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Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 'Sweet Pea'

Post by tom_tom_go » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:30 pm

LNR wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:34 am You beat me to it Dave, I was going to say it's one thing to have an injector, it's another thing entirely to pipe it so it will pick up reliably, and they generally don't like warm water.
I do agree with this point, however, Sweet Pea is a big girl for 5" gauge so the generously sized saddle tank will not heat us as much as those on smaller standard 5" gauge locos. The injector I have is larger than those used on smaller locos (the injectors Dave mentioned on the excellent looking 3 1/2" Charles in the SRS link look tiny so no wonder they heat up quickly, the saddle tank is also a very neat fit onto the boiler – heat cannot escape). If you look back at the photos I have posted the saddle tank on my loco is well ventilated (the boiler is also insulated).

Of course, I could do all this and have issues. I have a tender for the loco, however, I do not want to be hunched over it while driving.

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Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 'Sweet Pea'

Post by tom_tom_go » Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:47 pm

The boiler has two clack valves, one on each side of the loco. One valve feeds water from the hand pump and the other shown below from the axle pump:

IMG_20191124_215813-01.jpeg
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The injector needs to have a dedicated feed into the boiler and as you would not normally use the hand and axle pump at the same time they can share one clack valve.

New plumbing is needed which will require silver soldering brass nipples to new pipework. Fortunately, I got experience of silver soldering when I fitted a Regner whistle to a Roundhouse Lady Anne:

https://gardenrails.org/forum/viewtopic ... 25&t=12218

First nipple soldered, not bad if I do say so myself:

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This photo shows a new tee piece connecting the hand pump (lower pipe coming off the tee piece) and then the right feed connecting to the axle pump (left feed is connected to the clack valve):

IMG_20200202_172352_1-01.jpeg
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New pipework off the existing tee piece that use to feed the right clack valve now connects to new tee piece to feed water into the left clack valve:

IMG_20200202_172414-01.jpeg
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So now we have a free clack valve to use for the injector, woo!

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Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 'Sweet Pea'

Post by dewintondave » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:28 pm

Excellent silver soldering Tom. I've Loctited some recently (pressure gauge and blower pipe) :shock:

It's good to have the hand pump feeding through the axle pump. So far I haven't had to use hand pumping on the Quarry Hunslet at all except for testing :thumbup:

I'm a fan of saddle tanks, the warmed water is great for feed water heating and it's good to use some of that waste heat for good
Best wishes,
Dave

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Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 'Sweet Pea'

Post by tom_tom_go » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:09 pm

dewintondave wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:28 pm Excellent silver soldering Tom. I've Loctited some recently (pressure gauge and blower pipe) :shock:
Loctite can achieve amazing results these days. I plan to use a hydraulic sealant type for fixing the new water filter for the injector feed into the saddle tank (my friend has a plan to use a clasper device to somehow get the filter from the tank lid into position at the bottom of the tank!)

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Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 'Sweet Pea'

Post by tom_tom_go » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:17 pm

dewintondave wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:28 pm It's good to have the hand pump feeding through the axle pump. So far I haven't had to use hand pumping on the Quarry Hunslet at all except for testing :thumbup:
The axle pump on my loco is very effective, however, when you are waiting on the club track at the station for passengers or locos joining/leaving the track the hand pump is the only way of getting water into the boiler.

The injector will allow me to fill the boiler with water whenever but the hand pump is good for testing as you say Dave and as a last resort!

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Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 'Sweet Pea'

Post by Andrew » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:26 am

Great progress Tom, well done!

As others have said, the engineering's beyond me, but it's fascinating to watch someone who knows what they're doing - or, indeed, someone who's finding their way and learning as they go along. It makes me realise quite how much our little 16mm live steamers have been simplified - I'm very grateful that they have!

Cheers,

Andrew.

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Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 'Sweet Pea'

Post by tom_tom_go » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:40 pm

Andrew wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:26 am Great progress Tom, well done!

As others have said, the engineering's beyond me, but it's fascinating to watch someone who knows what they're doing - or, indeed, someone who's finding their way and learning as they go along.
I fall into the 'finding their way' catergory!

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Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 'Sweet Pea'

Post by tom_tom_go » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:48 pm

To supply the injector with controlled steam flow it needs to be connected to a valve. The turret on the boiler of the loco already had a valve and a tapped thread for an additional valve should one need to be fitted later on (currently fitted with a blanking plug).

Unfortunately, I discovered that the spare valve on the turret cannot take 3/16" pipe which is what the injector requires (I reckon the valve is for 5/32" pipe which is smaller). After working out the TPI of the thread (after learning how to work this out) I needed to purchase a valve that could take 3/16" pipe with a 5/16" x 32 TPI thread. I grew up with the metric system so just working this all out is an achievement!

Here is the new injector steam valve installed (the connection is angled at 45 degrees so the larger diameter pipe can be connected):

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The hole pictured here was used for the whistle pipework that went under the footplate, however, the whistle needs to be moved to make way for the injector water valve that will be installed in its place (I want the whistle mounted on the spectacle plate anyway):

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I had to enlarge the hole slightly to allow the larger union nuts to fit. I did this very slowly and with a block on the top of the hole so to not slip through with the drill and hit the boiler!

The new pipework shown goes from the new valve to the steam injector:

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I have not soldered the brass nipples on the pipework yet as the injector is sitting too low to the ground, the pipe needs adjusting.

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Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 'Sweet Pea'

Post by tom_tom_go » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:57 pm

This is the latest work on installing the injector bringing the thread up to present day:

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I have not soldered any of the pipework yet so this is just trial fitting.

To get the water feed connected to the injector a new take off is required from the saddle tank. The water filter shown below needs to be installed inside the tank with the union fitting on the outside so that a pipe can be connected:

IMG_20200212_192439-01.jpeg
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I am starting to get more confident with pipe bending. Although I did buy a pipe bender and pipe bending springs I have discovered that heating copper pipe over my gas hob, cooling and then heating again is a very effective way of making bends without kinks.

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Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 'Sweet Pea'

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:31 pm

I think that's it for the injector placement. The pipe bends now line up with the existing pipework and the injector is higher and further back away from the rear wheel. I will solder a longer pipe to the drain on the injector to direct water away from the wheel if needed:

IMG_20200215_180329-01.jpeg
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As a comparison:

IMG_20200211_212530-01.jpeg
IMG_20200211_212530-01.jpeg (383.05 KiB) Viewed 7956 times

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Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 'Sweet Pea'

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:43 pm

In the last picture the water tank has been removed as I have sent this off to my engineering friend to fit the water filter as it is a bit of a conundrun but I also sent the chimney base and cap as I have decided I want an even bigger chimney!

IMG_20200213_194023-01.jpeg
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The base and cap need to be silver soldered for strength and I don't have a blow torch big enough to deliver the heat required for such large items.

The chimney size will be similar to the one fitted in this video:


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Re: 5" gauge 0-6-0 'Sweet Pea'

Post by dewintondave » Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:58 pm

tom_tom_go wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:48 pm After working out the TPI of the thread (after learning how to work this out) I needed to purchase a valve that could take 3/16" pipe with a 5/16" x 32 TPI thread. I grew up with the metric system so just working this all out is an achievement!
Good on you Tom! I too was taught metric at school, luckily learnt imperial in industry. We were really let down by the Europhiles. I've got a Greenly O gauge truck drawing from '20's or 30's where he dimensioned everything in mm, and made it 7mm / ft, and even used those dopey commas for a decimal place :D
Best wishes,
Dave

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