Beeston Market Station forecourt/backscenes

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philipy
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Re: Beeston Market Station forecourt

Post by philipy » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:46 am

gregh wrote: Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:44 am
But as a 'mockup' example, this is why I'd like to try them. Here's my Fibro Flat station against my house and a maybe backscene.
FF composite.jpg
I see your point Greg. It does improve that shot tremendously but that illustrates what I was trying to say earlier. It does look good in a still photo but in a long banner type shot the perspective would possibly go wrong unless you were either very lucky or able to choose a picture with no real reference points.
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Re: Beeston Market Station forecourt

Post by gregh » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:51 am

philipy wrote: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:46 am I see your point Greg. It does improve that shot tremendously but that illustrates what I was trying to say earlier. It does look good in a still photo but in a long banner type shot the perspective would possibly go wrong unless you were either very lucky or able to choose a picture with no real reference points.
I'm not good enough at understanding perspective so 'someday' I'll get around to actually spending (wasting?) $50 or so and try a banner. Maybe it won't work unless my pics are at right angles to the wall, or maybe I'll need a really long banner for 'along the track' shots.

Your low relief buildings are great and do what you say. But I don't want buildings, I want country.
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Re: Beeston Market Station forecourt

Post by BorisSpencer » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:34 am

If the back scenes are for photographic purposes, you could always create temporary green screens and add your own backgrounds in Photoshop afterwards.
Would this be considered ethical?

The post production back-scene could just be a better shot of your own garden.
I suppose it raises the question should people touch up their photos before posting, and to what degree?
For instance does re-cropping count as editing. Is it any different from 'staging'.

Edit - Sorry for hijacking your thread Rik, and what you have produced 'au natural' is still way beyond what most of us could fake up in Photoshop.

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Re: Beeston Market Station forecourt / backscenes

Post by ge_rik » Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:47 am

BorisSpencer wrote: Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:34 am Edit - Sorry for hijacking your thread Rik, ......
No problem - as I said earlier, I posed the question and so am interested in a range of responses. I wish I had the luxury of a large enough garden to be able to take shots of my trains from any angle - but over 50% the views will show the house, garage, sheds or garden paraphernalia. I can erect green screen material when I want to stage particular shots but most of my filming and photography happens during normal running sessions, which is why I'm wondering whether some sort of scenic screening would be appropriate. I could erect blue plastic tarpaulins permanently to then photoshop them out when I want to record what's happening, but then I would have to live with the blue screens all the time, which is why I wondered about some sort of backscene.

The alternative is to plant some quick growing natural flora to screen out the ugly bits of the garden - but that will take a few years to become established - and I don't fancy festooning the house with Virginia Creeper.

Rik
Last edited by ge_rik on Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Beeston Market Station forecourt

Post by Dwayne » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:35 pm

I prefer to view photos of a member's line in the raw. My eyes tends to focus on just the railway aspects and disregards the rest.

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Re: Beeston Market Station forecourt

Post by tom_tom_go » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:05 pm

The stream does it for me Rik, I love the sound of trickling water over stones.

If I ever build another outdoor railway a water feature will be a must!

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Re: Beeston Market Station forecourt

Post by ge_rik » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:25 pm

tom_tom_go wrote: Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:05 pm The stream does it for me Rik, I love the sound of trickling water over stones.

If I ever build another outdoor railway a water feature will be a must!
Must admit that it is probably the most pleasing aspect of my railway and what most visitors comnent on. Even my wife was delighted when I installed the water wheel!

Many, many years ago, when we were walking on a footpath beside a small stream with my daughter in the Lake District, I told her that one day I would build a stream in our garden. I was determined to fulfil that dream. Needless to say, she has no recollection of that 'promise'. Kids, eh?

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Re: Beeston Market Station forecourt / backscenes

Post by GTB » Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:05 pm

ge_rik wrote: Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:47 am The alternative is to plant some quick growing natural flora to screen out the ugly bits of the garden - but that will take a few years to become established - and I don't fancy festooning the house with Virginia Creeper.
Have you considered some suitably bushy pot plants that can be moved around to screen unwanted gaps, etc. for photographic purposes?

Plants are the best background for a garden railway in my opinion. Although I find I can mentally edit out the standard Oz backyard fence in the background of photos, I can't do it with brick walls and bits of houses.

Another issue with painted/photographic backgrounds is matching the lighting conditions. It doesn't matter that the background to my indoor HO layout perpetually shows a sunny day in an Aust. summer, as the lighting matches that. It would however have looked distinctly strange in my garden today, as the weather was cold, grey and wet.

Regards,
Graeme

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Re: Beeston Market Station forecourt / backscenes

Post by IanC » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:42 pm

GTB wrote: Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:05 pm
ge_rik wrote: Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:47 am The alternative is to plant some quick growing natural flora to screen out the ugly bits of the garden - but that will take a few years to become established - and I don't fancy festooning the house with Virginia Creeper.
Have you considered some suitably bushy pot plants that can be moved around to screen unwanted gaps, etc. for photographic purposes?

Plants are the best background for a garden railway in my opinion. Although I find I can mentally edit out the standard Oz backyard fence in the background of photos, I can't do it with brick walls and bits of houses.

Another issue with painted/photographic backgrounds is matching the lighting conditions. It doesn't matter that the background to my indoor HO layout perpetually shows a sunny day in an Aust. summer, as the lighting matches that. It would however have looked distinctly strange in my garden today, as the weather was cold, grey and wet.

Regards,
Graeme
I like the idea of using pot plants as a background. Personally I'm not too bothered about a backscene for my railway as my garden is too small and has too many features that will be difficult to hide. I run my railway because I like operating trains so realistic settings and landscapes are not too important for me.

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Re: Beeston Market Station forecourt/backscenes

Post by gregh » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:11 am

This is a great topic and bringing out useful ideas. It shows that different people have different requirements and solutions and also different ways of 'having fun' with garden trains.
I seem to have progressed beyond enjoying just running trains, to enjoying being able to photograph or video them to look realistic. I have no photographic training or expensive camera, but just enjoy looking for angles and subjects.
I think we are talking about two different ideas here - PERMANENT backscenes as used in HO indoor layouts, and 'moveable' ones more for photography.
I agree that when I visit a garden railway, my eye can blank out the sheds, house, fence, clothes line and whatever else. I just see the trains and tracks and buildings.
So a permanent backscene would not be really useful for me as a visitor.
BUT when I get home and look at my pics I think how much better they could have looked IF ONLY I had not got that garbage bin in the background.

The idea of plants in pots is a good one, but maybe big pots would be heavy to move around.
Graeme's comment on lighting conditions was something I had never considered. I wonder how much of a problem it will be. I usually don't have a lot of sky in my pics anyhow. But I can only find out by trying it.
I have used plenty of Blue/green screen video effects and they are a lot of work. As Rik says they wouldn't be something you'd want to leave hanging around your yard everywhere as they would really distract the eye. If you are using screens to allow videos, you'll need really large ones if you want to allow the camera to move. I have only ever used a fixed camera and then created a blue screen pic using Paint, to let through what I want.

What I am wanting is some screens that I only put out when running and maybe can be used at a number of locations as a 'general' scene. Probably not possible, but I dream. As soon as I find a suitable pic I'll order one.
Greg from downunder.
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Re: Beeston Market Station forecourt/backscenes

Post by Southern188 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:27 am

I greatly admire all your modelling skills and the realistic scenes and enjoy viewing them but I'm dissapointed to find that some of the photos and videos are being, or will be, digitally enhanced. They are good enough without this and more natural for a railway that is in a garden.

Please, no fake photographs or videos.

Michael

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Re: Beeston Market Station forecourt/backscenes

Post by ge_rik » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:09 am

Southern188 wrote: Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:27 am I greatly admire all your modelling skills and the realistic scenes and enjoy viewing them but I'm disappointed to find that some of the photos and videos are being, or will be, digitally enhanced. They are good enough without this and more natural for a railway that is in a garden.

Please, no fake photographs or videos.

Michael
Hi Michael
Interesting. Does that mean you normally blank out an ugly looking background? It's only the background which has been or will be changed (and so far I've only touched up the background on the one video listed).

I'm asking because I'd like to take pictures from angles different to those I've been using for the past ten years. The reason I've not taken pictures of those parts of the railway before is because of the backgrounds (ie brick walls, wooden fences, sheds and general garden clutter). For example, there are very few pictures of the swing bridge because in one direction the background is tatty sheds and the other direction is the house or garage.

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Re: Beeston Market Station forecourt/backscenes

Post by ge_rik » Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:28 pm

OK - to further the debate. I've been tinkering today.

Here's an unadulterated photo of one of my trains crossing the swing bridge with its actual background (ie the sheds etc)
IMG_7856.JPG
IMG_7856.JPG (170.05 KiB) Viewed 9593 times

Here, I've erected a screen of blue plastic to hide the sheds
IMG_7855.JPG
IMG_7855.JPG (140.75 KiB) Viewed 9593 times

And in this shot I've chroma keyed a background. It's a bit rough and ready as you can still see the wrinkles in the plastic.
swing bridge view.jpg
swing bridge view.jpg (118.43 KiB) Viewed 9593 times

Now, the question is, should I develop this approach further or am I wasting my time?

Rik
PS - My thinking is that, as my railway is hypothetically situated in a real location, I could take photos of the locality and occasionally use these as backgrounds. Will it add an extra dimension or actually detract from the garden railway?
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Re: Beeston Market Station forecourt/backscenes

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:47 pm

You should do what you want Rik and not post to appease others.

My railway is not realistic enough to worry about such things as it's a railway that just happens to be in a garden.

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Re: Beeston Market Station forecourt/backscenes

Post by Dwayne » Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:49 pm

IMHO, anything artificial in a photo attracts my attention away from the intended focus... the trains, track and lineside structures. Perhaps it's because I know that our model railways are set in a real world of tool sheds, wheelbarrows, fences, etc. My mind's eye sees these items in photos but dismisses them automatically. Perhaps this is because after years in the hobby my mind has become "trained" to the trains.

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Re: Beeston Market Station forecourt/backscenes

Post by philipy » Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:20 pm

I actually like both but for different reasons.
With the original shot my mind automatically concentrates on the model loco, more or less to the exclusion of everything else.
The final shot looks much more like a train in a landscape and less of a model.
So if you want to show the loco detail, use (a) if you want to show a realistic scene use (b) (IMO of course!)
BUT, I agree with Tom, it's your railway, do what YOU want.
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Re: Beeston Market Station forecourt/backscenes

Post by bazzer42 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:55 pm

I'm with Dwayne any detritus in a photo (I have plenty) isn't instant to my eyes and helps set the context of the space you have to work with.

That said the last photo has to be double checked to be sure it's a model.

If it's one or the other it's au natural for me but I will still be looking at your pics either way 😀

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Re: Beeston Market Station forecourt/backscenes

Post by Southern188 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:48 pm

Post deleted.
Last edited by Southern188 on Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Beeston Market Station forecourt/backscenes

Post by tom_tom_go » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:27 pm

No one is right or wrong and no one is a favourite here so you are entitled to an opinion.

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Re: Beeston Market Station forecourt/backscenes

Post by ge_rik » Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:18 pm

Southern188 wrote: Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:48 pm Rik, as stated above you can do what you want but I'm sure I've seen that video before and thought it was so realistic. Now looking at it again, I can clearly see the changes and realise what an idiot I was for thinking it was real.

Sorry for making an issue of it but I can't now believe everything I see. The picture with the river in the background is obviously false so fine if that's what you want to do, I just can't see the point. Your models are so good without digital enhancements.

Your popular here, I'm not (not now anyway) so I wish I hadn't replied.
Hi Michael
No, please, I was honestly interested in your response and everyone else's come to that. I am really wrestling with this issue. I sometimes feel that people must be getting bored with seeing yet another photo or video of the PLR showing the same loco and stock going along the same bit of track. I'm glad you have responded as I can now see that my idea for trying to obliterate unattractive backgrounds is maybe not as essential as I thought.

I think I'll still experiment with chroma keying for my own amusement, but given the amount of effort required to set up and process each shot, it will be an occasional distraction. The vast majority of my photos and videos are literally taken in the midst of an operating session by plonking the camera down to grab some footage or snaps as things happen. I will, however, sometimes re-run a sequence if the loco hits the camera or something becomes derailed (sod's law often seems to apply).

I'm sure I have irritated a fair few people on here by my repeated requests for basic information or views on topics, and also by my cack-handed modelling efforts (and also my perversity at running battery powered steam locos). I think I am more benignly 'tolerated' than 'popular'.

I hope I haven't put you off watching future videos. If ever I do resort to digital trickery again, I will flag it up clearly.

Rik
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